Have LinkedIn Ads Overtaken Facebook Ads

Have LinkedIn Ads Overtaken Facebook Ads For B2B Demand Generation?

In this podcast, Dean Denny, host & founder of Owendenny Digital, discusses the exciting developments in LinkedIn advertising for SaaS companies and B2B organizations. He highlights the decreasing cost of traffic on LinkedIn compared to Facebook, making it a lucrative platform for marketers.

Dean advises adapting the tone and content of ads to suit LinkedIn’s audience and recommends rotating creatives for better results. He emphasizes the potential for lower costs per lead on LinkedIn and encourages listeners to take advantage of this opportunity before competition increases.

Top 5 Lessons you will learn from this podcast:

1) The cost of traffic on LinkedIn is decreasing compared to Facebook, making it a more affordable advertising platform for SaaS companies and B2B organizations.

2) LinkedIn’s targeting options are powerful and allow marketers to reach their key decision-makers and avatars more easily compared to Facebook.

3) Advertisers need to adjust their tone of voice and offers when transitioning from Facebook to LinkedIn, as not all strategies that work well on Facebook will be effective on LinkedIn.

4) Rotating creatives and aggressively testing different ad formats on LinkedIn can lead to better results and engagement.

5) Despite the initial investment required, running LinkedIn ads can yield lower costs per lead and higher lead quality compared to Facebook, especially in the B2B space with less competition from other advertisers.


[00:02:56] Marketing costs rising

[00:04:23] Cost of Facebook Ads Dropped

[00:05:46] Media buying landscape flipped: Try LinkedIn Ads!

[00:07:00] Accelerate with LinkedIn Ads.

[00:08:26] Target key decision makers with LinkedIn.

[00:10:13] Change tone, rotate ads

[00:11:47] Invest in LinkedIn Ads for B2B.


Hey everyone. And welcome back to open source growth, your leading destination for all things, direct response advertising, growing your SaaS business and marketing strategy. My name is Dean Denny. I am the founder and director of Owendenny Digital Australia’s top-ranked SaaS marketing agency. And I cannot wait to go through today’s podcast with you. Why? Well, we’re pretty excited here at the agency because we’re starting to see some very exciting numbers pop through, and it’s not for our own accounts, even though we are doing this test right now, inside our own campaigns. And just for context, it’s the 26th of June 2023 and we’re right in the thick of it. When it comes to end of financial year here in Australia. Now the reason why I want to do this podcast today is to mark a point in time.

Here’s what’s been really interesting for us recently. At Owendenny, we do market a lot of SaaS companies. We work with a lot of B2B organizations, especially, you know, those seven to eight figure, um, services companies who are really looking for some aggressive scale. Um, and where they go to, when it comes to, you know, top line growth marketing strategy and coordinating everything from, you know, the head of marketing through to the team members, helping them work with our agency, providing them with the demand generation services and the SEO strategy, the whole name it, you know, we’ve, we’re across a lot of things at Owendenny digital.

So, um,

Why we want to talk about today is that we’ve been running tests internally and we have been running tests externally. And what we mean by that is that our clients are participating in our signature, our IT process, which is the rapid iterative testing process where we determine the best means of generating gated content leads or marketing qualified leads.

We determine the best process of generating sales qualified leads through either content or, um, the light sales offerings. We also determine the best platforms, the best creative angles, the best messaging. The best. Um, big ideas in order to get growth marketing to work for their business. So we do this with SaaS companies with online brands.

Um, services companies, very, it’s a very B2B thing that we do, and we do it exceptionally well. But what’s really crazy here is that in the context of one of our clients, one of our enterprise clients. We’ve been doing this both on Facebook and we’ve been doing it on LinkedIn. And we’re starting to see some very, very exciting, uh, things emerge. Now, as many of you would be listening to this podcast you’re probably a devoted marketer. You know what you’re doing, or you may have a pretty good understanding of what you’re doing. You’re running Facebook ads, uh, your, you know, You’re writing copy, your developing creatives, you might be doing it with the aid of chatGPT and Canva. You may be shooting short form videos on your phone, or if you’ve got a professional videographer that you’re working with.

Um, your, you know, obviously developing particular offers, particular frameworks. Um, you could be just running traffic directly to your website. Like this doesn’t really matter too much about that today, but what we are starting to see. Right here right now in this snapshot of time. Is the cost of traffic on LinkedIn is starting to pivot.

As you may be aware if you’re running Facebook ads right now, a thousand dollars on Facebook ads that you spend five years ago would be the equivalent of spending $5,000 on Facebook ads today. What we are trying to articulate here is that, the way facebook bills is based on not the number of clicks you generate, but it’s based on the number of impressions they serve and what we’re starting to see here. And it’s really quite fascinating this journey, is the cost of link of Facebook ads, say five years ago, you may have been only paying, you know, $8 to $12 per thousand impressions. In the B2B vertical from a lot of the campaigns we are running, whether they be conversion-based campaigns or they be lead form campaigns. So strictly demand generation based or lead generation based campaigns.

We’re starting to see the CPMs be a lot higher. Than our typical LinkedIn. Campaigns now this is super exciting. See, if you spoke to me about five years ago around about LinkedIn ads or spoke to any marketer, they would have said, don’t do it. It’s a waste of time. There’s not enough users. The cost per thousand impressions will blow your socks off. You’re going to be spending $25 a click. You’re going to be spending $150 per 1000 impressions.

It’s going to be hard to do. You need to spend at least $8,000 a month to get it to work. Nowadays that is not the case. Just last month, we’ve been running ads on LinkedIn. And we’re starting to see that our CPMs are cost per thousand impressions have dropped below $40 for high quality, high interest, wildly motivated b2B leads with C suite stake holders. It’s down to $40 per CPM. It’s gone from 120 down to 40 where we’re seeing Facebook go from eight to $12. For conversion-based campaigns and now that’s sword all the way above. 60 to $80 per thousand impressions. We’re talking about a complete flip in your media buying landscape.

So what does this mean? If you are a media buyer, or if you’re at CMR and you’re thinking, hang on a second, we’re spending 10 grand a month or $25,000 a month in Facebook ads haven’t even scratched the surface with LinkedIn. And now you’re thinking, hang on a second, there’s an opportunity. This is really, really cool. We can do something. We can make this work.

Uh, well, Ladies and gentlemen, it is the time for you to give it a crack. Now. I’m not going to go too much into the details of how LinkedIn is a different platform. Because it is it’s undeniable with respect to Facebook ads, but LinkedIn, as a platform, by the way, I’m not motivated to say this. I’m not paid on endorsed by the LinkedIn ads platform here. This is totally unbiased.

Unfettered views here. That with LinkedIn right here right now. You can start to hit the accelerator where your competitors are spending more and more to acquire customers. So if you have a proven funnel and you have a proven landing page with a proven sales process, you just need high quality traffic hitting your landing pages. Not only do you need higher quality traffic into your landing pages, you need the volume of traffic hitting your landing pages.

So if you’re fed up and sick of spending. Ending seven to eight, even $25 a click on Facebook just to drive a higher quality B2B prospect to a landing page. Changing your media mix from say 80% Facebook. It’s down to 60% Facebook and then putting a sampling budget or a testing budget towards LinkedIn.

Um, ads, maybe the smartest move you do all week, all year. All decade. Because of the fact that we’re starting to see such an improvement in the platform, not only from an artificial intelligence targeting perspective. They’ve changed the way they buy media. It’s not. A combination of impressions and clicks. It’s now just impressions just like Facebook. So you can really make a very easy comparison.

The targeting options, they are very, very powerful. It’s very easy to target your key decision maker. Or your, you know, your key avatar, very, very simply. It’s not like Facebook whose everyone’s providing you with a fake name or a fake address or a fake whatever. And it’s confusing the living daylights out of the Facebook ad platform, even though it’s very good at targeting.

LinkedIn has so much more nuanced B2B prowess nowadays. And the only thing that’s removed us advertisers from getting in the game and having a crack with LinkedIn is the cost of traffic that’s coming down. More users are hitting the platform. You can run ads, you can target people. It’s all really freaking powerful.

So. Guys, I’m really excited about this. If, if you do have a brand and if you are running LinkedIn ads, This is the time to double down because if your competitors are on Facebook and they’re spending money and they’re not getting anywhere with it. Just go for it. Like just absolutely knuckle down. If you can double your spend do it. It is the time it’s time to go. Especially when they were coming into a recession. Everybody.

We know historically that the best startups, the best growth stories come at. Uh, we’ll come out. No. Those best startups are those who manage to get through the sock of the recession and explode out the back end. And the way you can do that is by aggressively marketing throughout the recession. That is what’s going to keep you powerful, keep you strong.

And get you to grow. So. If you’re going to consider it, this is the time to do it.

Now, word of warning. If you are just a Facebook advertiser or a, or a founder, who’s running the Facebook ads. And you’re trying to get yourself to go across to LinkedIn. Believe it or not, you do have to change your tone of voice. Some offers will not work on LinkedIn. We’ve had.

Our own experiences with LinkedIn. We’re offers where we were generating marketing, qualified, lead off to marketing qualified lead for less than $10. A contact. Have fallen flat on LinkedIn. So just because something works really, really well on Facebook doesn’t mean it’s always going to work well on LinkedIn.

The other thing you need to consider with LinkedIn, just because of the fact that there’s not as much optics on rate on frequency. There’s plenty of optics on impressions that there’s not that much optics on reach. You don’t get those beautiful frequency numbers that you can honestly appraise the power of your advertising. So what we have found is working well with LinkedIn ads is rotating your ads aggressively. I’m not talking about changing offers aggressively because at the end of the day, you need to give something some life to see whether it’s going to work or not.

But changing out your creatives, that means changing your copies, changing your, um, creatives. Stopping our video formats for carousels and carousels for images. Um, really go aggressively there. The other thing we’re starting to see as well, is that. You need to be spending at least, and this is where it can be cost prohibitive.

You need to be spending at least $80 per campaign per day to see any meaningful results. Now. What does that translate to? Well, if you’re not willing to invest $4,000 a month into LinkedIn, you may just be spinning your wheels. But. There is hope because at the other end of the journey, What we’re starting to see are the cost of LinkedIn ads. Once you have the campaign dialed in much lower. We’re not talking. $80 per lead on Facebook. We’re seeing the same thing happen. On LinkedIn for $65-$70. We’re seeing the lead quality be better. If not. Much better than what we’re seeing on Facebook for a lot of our big B2B accounts right now. And. The best part about it. There’s a whole lot less competition. There’s a whole lot less R&D in this space, because the best advertisers haven’t caught around to doing it. And here’s the best part. You’re just competing with other B2B advertisers who really don’t know what they’re doing on the platform either. Whereas what you can see. On Facebook, is that you’re not only competing against B2B advertisers for the same?

Target market you’re actually going to be competing for. That same screen time against other direct to consumer brands and governments and all sorts of stuff that are marketing to those same people. So guys, if you are thinking about running LinkedIn ads, this is the time to do it. If you can’t afford an agency to do it, get onto YouTube and go for it.

If you’re looking for someone to coach you on this, find a good marketing coach that has experience here. It will be a lot more cost effective than working with a marketing agency. But if you are looking for someone. To take your demand generation by the collar. And get it to really thrive for you, or just wanting an honest appraisal of what you’re already doing.

No strings attached. We can help you. We are a direct response advertising agency, Owendenny digital we’ve been working with hundreds of brands over the past five years, getting them to grow and thrive online through the power of Facebook ads, Google ads, LinkedIn ads. Marketing strategy and direct response advertising.

Think Gary Halbert think Gary Benson venue, think David Ogilvy and match that with Neo from the matrix, plus a whole heap of media buying geekiness. And your SaaS company. That’s what you get with Owendenny digital. So if you are interested, Why don’t you just go book a free 10 minute chat with me where we can go through you, what you’re trying to achieve and see whether there’s a fit for us to help you believe me. We do turn people away. So I’m one of those crappy sales calls. It’s unfiltered, raw, straight up marketing and personal growth advice.

And we may even be able to help you at the end. So then we can talk about next steps. So if you are interested in running LinkedIn ads, you don’t know where to start. Why don’t you go book a free 10 minute call, hit the link at the very bottom of this podcast. And we can take it from there.

But guys, get onto it. Cease this opportunity. It’s not going to last long. The AI window of opportunity is starting to close. This one has just opened. Get in there before it’s too late. My name’s Dean. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of open source. Um, growth and. If I don’t hear from you, I hope you’d be well. I’d go about executing this today. I’ll talk to you all soon. Cheers. For now.




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To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

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B2B Email Nurturing Sequences Aren’t Enough


In this podcast, Dean discusses the challenges of email marketing for B2B companies in today’s digital landscape. He highlights how the marketing world has evolved over the past decade, with increased costs per click, the need for direct response advertising, and the difficulty of generating and nurturing leads.

Dean emphasizes that traditional email nurturing sequences are no longer as effective, as people have become more cynical about leaving their information and are overwhelmed by email marketing. He suggests implementing multiple strategies to improve email marketing, including offering additional value upon download, remarketing through various channels, and hosting live webinars or Q&A sessions to engage and build trust with prospects.


By listening to this episode, you will learn:

1) Embrace the ever-changing landscape: From skyrocketing costs per click to the need for direct response advertising, it’s crucial to stay on top of these shifts and adapt our strategies accordingly.

2) Crack the code of lead generation: It’s time to think outside the box and discover innovative ways to generate and nurture leads that truly resonate with our audience.

3) Go beyond the ordinary, offer extraordinary value: Whether it’s a free resource, an exclusive discount, or personalized content, giving your audience something valuable upon download or interaction sets you apart and boosts engagement.

4) Expand your horizons, tap into multiple channels: Don’t limit yourself to a single channel; instead, explore remarketing strategies across different platforms to reach your potential customers where they are most receptive.

5) Forge real connections, build unwavering trust: Hosting live webinars, interactive Q&A sessions, or even personalized video messages allows you to actively engage with your prospects on a personal level.



[00:00:00] Marketing changed: email nurturing sequences.

[00:05:35] Email marketing harder than ever.

[00:09:16] Grow database, nurture leads, webinars, multiple measures.

[00:11:35] Remarket with custom audiences.

[00:13:44] Live events build audience trust.

[00:18:32] Grow business with digital marketing.


Hey everyone. 

It’s Dean here and welcome to open source growth. I am your host. And today we’re not going to be talking about anything, direct response advertising. Related specifically. In fact, we’re going to be talking about email nurturing sequences and particularly email nurturing sequences. For B2B companies now. 

This is an interesting one because. Over the past 10 years, the world of digital marketing has dramatically changed. It doesn’t matter if you’re a SaaS company, an accounting firm. Are you a real estate agent that. Offers, you know, commercial real estate. Or are you a conveyancer or a lawyer? Look. 

The world we lived in 10 years ago from a marketing perspective is so aggressively different to the world we live in. Now we used to pay 30 cents per click in the two thousands. We’re now paying upwards of $30 per click, depending on the vertical you’re in. We. Used to just have simple. Our websites, which are like brochures. Now they don’t convert anymore. You need to now have a direct response advertising influenced. 

Website with hard hitting sales copy and great offers and multiple buyer journeys and paths and things like that. You know, we used to just be able to generate phone calls by asking people, well, you know, call now for a free quote. Now we have sophisticated. Um, you know, gated content offers, whether they be free checklists or free trainings or whatever. Um, and we now segment our office out based on buyer intent instead of simply. Asking people to leave their. Uh, you know, their contact details. 

What’s also really interesting too, is that we now live in this world where we. Um, more and more cynical of leaving information with businesses because they know they’re going to get absolutely dominated from an email marketing perspective. It’s really crazy. The world we live in, isn’t quite the same. And, you know, just to make things even tougher to, as a paid traffic specialist, we understand the new, the nuances and the unique pain points that come from running. Uh, trafficking an iOS 14 world where, you know, being able to track end to end your leads that come through your Facebook ads, matching the conversion information against what you’re seeing in your Stripe terminal or your Thrivecart terminal or Shopify or whatever. Your, your, you know, Your operating system is. To manage your numbers. In your business. 

Like it’s not as easy as it once was. And something that’s a whole lot harder nowadays. Is. The world of not only generating the lead, the generating, the lead is more costly. It’s not necessarily harder to do. But what’s more difficult nowadays. This is being able to take a gated offer lead. So whether that would be a gated content lead, which we would call a marketing qualified lead, and taking that person from marketing qualified all the way through to sales qualified. Which. 

Basically in layman’s terms. Means taking someone from mildly interested to very interested and willing to step onto a call with a sales specialist or a. Um, practitioner. Now. This is tough. Like it is really, really tough to get right. Because. The problem that we’re all finding ourselves in as B2B marketers, is that. We’re looking to get people into our database. So we go about setting off a whole heap of. Um, Marketing initiatives, which. Get us thinking about, okay, cool. How do we build out the size of our database? Oh, okay, cool. Let’s build out some. Free. Um, resources, which we know our target customer may like, we then segment those. Um, free resources based on buyer intent. 

For instance, he may have a, just say you’re a law firm and you offer B2B. Um, legal services to small business owners. Um, so your first thing may be like, you know, The ultimate guide to structuring. Uh, you know, do the ultimate guide to structuring your business, uh, for. I don’t know for sales companies or whatever. So that may be a very high. Like a very low. Um, commercial intent, but very valuable knowledge that the target customer may want. And then, you know, you may develop at a second gated offer or another marketing qualified lead, which may be all about. Oh, okay. Cool. Um, you know, You know, The 70 must ask questions. For every. For every law firm that you will. That you will interview. Or something along the lines of that, which would then give. The the, the law firms legal, our marketing team and understanding of like, okay, people are downloading this. They are more likely to engage and are more likely to spend money with us.

I mean, you couldn’t, you could pretty much call them a sales qualified lead instead. Or that in between point between sales qualified, our marketing qualified. Which I’m yet to figure out exactly what that is. But. Look. That doesn’t really matter. The point I’m trying to get to today is that email marketing is so much harder to get it to work than ever before. I remember. Talking to people. Oh, how many years ago? Like five years ago when they got started in digital marketing five years or 10 years before me that when they were running their email marketing campaigns, they would have open rates north of 60%. It was almost reading. Personal. Emails and that, you know, every email was read in their inbox. And. Back in the, you know, those glory days of digital marketing, it was the wild west. And, you know, those campaigns would absolutely go. Go ballistic. 

People would be generating so many, so many leads. People, every email would be read. Um, Every email would be not only read, but read with emotion and intensity and real rigor. Unlike the way we go through emails now. We never used to skim. We used to read emails line by line. Now we skim through them. Now, and that’s just. Not just your emails. That’s there. My emails that everyone’s emails. This is what we’re dealing with. Even though we could be the best copywriters in the world and best direct response advertiser in the world., people are skimming their emails, you know, which means that the work that you’re doing as a. Marketer or you’re doing as a founder or a sales person or whoever you are in the growth team. It’s getting more and more difficult to be successful nowadays. 

So. Now that there’s a whole lot more competition in your prospect’s inbox. And so many other people are now competing for your, or for their attention. And you’re one of them. What’s now starting to happen. Is that there are a lot of thought leaders like Ryan Deiss from digital marketer.com who have always communicated. Hey, if you get, but if you generate leads by using a free report or a lead magnet, That you can email market. Them and nurture them and warm them up. To jumping on a call with you. Now. If you did this five years ago, work like clockwork, but users are now getting privy to it. What’s a really interesting, um, test for you to do as a marketer or as a business owner or a founder. Is to go into your inbox? Oh no, no. So go into your MailChimp account or your active campaign or your get response. Um, your EDM, um, your. Whatever supports your email marketing. Right. 

And then have a look at your sequences that you’ve set up now. Inside your email sequences. If you see more and more people. Um, leaving your list after that very first email. It’s it tells you a couple of things, not only about how good your emails are, but however, it also will tell you the nature of the game and having a look at that on subscribed right off the first email over the last five years. That’s where, like, you know, the writing’s on the ball here. Because. I hate to say it. Ladies and gentlemen, people are waking up to those email marketing newsletters. They are just like, they, they, they can see a nurturing sequence. They can see themselves getting hammered with emails. It’s all. Very very tough. 

And if you have relied in your business on generating a bulk. Database growth. Your days are. Your days are numbered. Um, if you have totally relied, not only on growing that database, but using these email sequences to nurture and get them onto sales calls. See, where we are taking things at the agency, and I want to let you know what we’re doing, so you’re able to get across it and you can see how were starting to market to our. Um, the clients as we are essentially a B2B marketing agency in many ways. Yes, we are a SaaS focused agency. Most SaaS companies are B2B focused and because that’s the case, um, We have to eat our own cooking. So what we’re now doing internally and what I recommend you to do. Is to not only evaluate your lead quality, see where they’re unsubscribing along your emails, nurturing sequences, especially those who opt in for marketing qualified offers. 

What we’re now looking at doing and implementing is a fortnightly or even a weekly webinar. I’ve always been very bearish on webinars. I’ve never really enjoyed them myself. But it’s just more and more evident nowadays that as we build the size of our own database, this chasm will exist and it will remain to exist in our database and as it will for yours. That taking your. Target customer from. Remotely interested to, I want to work with you is that gap is, is widening and it’s widening at a rate of knots. So, if you are looking to make the most of your database, looking at them, looking to make the most of your email list and wanting to activate them and to get them into the fold of your business, you have to do more than just send them an email and ask them to book a call. It’s no, it’s not good enough. It’s not going to work. And it only really works. And you’ve got extreme scale. 

We’re talking a hundred thousand, a million people on your list. To get this to grow. So what we are recommending to our clients as we are to you today is that don’t look at your B2B email nurturing sequences as your. Hail Mary throw, which will always work in fact. What we are recommending you now is to do a multiple. Of things like two, three measures to fix things. Number one as soon as people download. That guided offer. Offer them more value. So for instance, if they’re downloading their first ebook list, If they’re downloading an ebook, give them a secondary free training on the back end of that. Simultaneously, if they are downloading that ebook ensure that you are marketing them again, not only below the line within the email sequences, but also above the line with your Facebook and your Google and your LinkedIn ads. 

So remarket them by segmenting out your list by your marketing qualified lead leads. Okay, great. Create custom audiences based on this and run Google ads, display, um, run. LinkedIn ads run Facebook run. Instagram run YouTube, remarketing ads, run them all to ensure that people know that you exist. A B. They are starting to see all the other things you do. And see. And once they understand what you actually do and how you can actually help them. Start. Uh, asking the questions and really by understanding, you know, your three stage or your five stage marketing funnel, depending on the model that you’re using in your. Um, your business. 

We use a three-stage because we like simplicity. You know, are they in the awareness phase? Are they in the evaluation phase? Are they in the conversion phase or the activation phase? And no. The questions that they ask at each of those phases and craft content to remarket your audience with this. Along the line. Because at the end of the day, There needs to be top. Um, there needs to be top. You know, above the blind remarketing and below the line remarketing. Yeah. Your sequences are still going to run. But then he comes like the third thing. The third initiative needs to have, not only do you need to provide them with more free training or more. Free resources. Not only do you have to remarket them both via email and via paid social or paid Google or whatever. 

You also need to develop. A. Kind of a hybrid. Of being able to speak with a company representative at scale. And this is where we are saying like a free Q&A every week. Where, you know, or an AMA event, or like an ask me anything event. Is going to be super crucial in the formation of an audience that loves you. A guy who does this exceptionally well is Chris Walker from refined labs. He is an absolute beast in this area and. I would totally recommend you check out his weekly. Um, calls that he obviously once did, or is still doing today. 

So. Again, Um, having that weekly or fortnightly live event enables you to pull, you know, prospects together or interested parties. You work with them? One-on-one. You know, group scale setting. You’re able to answer their questions or you’re able to teach a very tactical, very actionable, um, you know, item every single week. That’s going to be super, super valuable for you. And once you do this, And once you start working through these like live webinars, or if you’re running, you know, five for free, you know, Facebook live events and you’re emailing us to get them on there. It gives them that next opportunity to be able to ask questions with you. And it keeps them that opportunity to. Not only feel as if you’re a real person, but it also enables them to see the human side of you. And that. Obviously help, you know, Establish some proof and some credibility in what you do. 

So it’s one thing to be marketing, like all day long and being able to have these canned responses ready to go based on like chat GPT or whatever the hell you’ve written your emails with, but being able to do it on the fly reflexively. At scale with people around you. That’s there’s some real magic there. And, you know, there’s also some additional magic with these live. Webinars formats too. And let me put it to you this way. You’ve get to create a whole heap of content, which you can chop up, splice up, do whatever the world you want with it and turn it into your remarketing ads or even your awareness ads to build out your personal brand or even your company brand. Like there’s some real power here. So. If you’re thinking about, okay, cool. Do I need an email sequence to be successful here? Yes, you probably do. But you need to understand what that email sequence is it meaning to achieve? Are you generating a whole heap of low quality marketing qualified leads. Okay, great. So that sequence, instead of trying to get people from downloading the checklist right away and going straight onto a call. Probably an idea. 

What’s more ideal probably going from. That marketing qualified leads. Um, you know, that low quality marketing qualified lead, the checklist, nurturing them to get onto a free webinar, which is truly exciting. Or an ask me anything, call whatever you want to call it, which doesn’t feel like. At pre-canned sales pitch, right. That is, that would be exciting. Oh, okay. If someone downloads a, say a free resource, which has commercial intent. Yeah. Great. That’s where you go about selling them. Via email or. Persuading them via email. To jump on a call with you. But just remember they can jump on that. Ask me anything call too, especially if you’ve got any objections or any thoughts in regards to how things work, how much things cost, blah, blah, blah. So that would work out really, really well, too. 

Do you do your email marketing in conjunction with a solid paid social remarketing strategy? Absolutely. You used re-targeting ads use Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, Google ads, YouTube, whatever. To follow your people around the internet with the right content at the right time, based on where they sit in the customer journey, are they. Um, Where are they in the sales funnel? Where are they in the database? Um, make sure you have content for them at that particular journey. So. At that particular point in the journey. So they are. You know, fully nurtured and they know that they’re getting the right information from you when you get an opportunity to tell them, you know what I’m saying? 

So. Make that happen. That’s really, really crucial. Will this impact your email nurturing sequence. If you go about setting up these. Live webinars with exciting content that you have a solid promise or an amazing opportunity to ask me anything, will that improve the performance of my email nurturing sequences? And it’s a ground resounding. Yes. Why is that? You’ve actually got exciting shit to talk to your list about. That they really want. That’s truly impactful and meaningful. So. If you are, you know, considering, okay, how do I take my MQL and turn them into high quality SQLs? This may be the best. Podcasts are listed. Listen to all day. Because it’s not just about relying on your emails, nurturing sequences anymore. It’s about. Creating a more than that. Creating live events, remarketing through social and paid social and having a small percentage of your budget dedicated to this every single month. 

So when you say, Hey, we’ve got $10,000 a month to spend on Facebook ads, have a thousand dollars and remain in the remarketing minimum. Even up to $3,000 worth of your budget, the 30% should be on remarketing. Through the funnel without a doubt. Because if you can take these. Ideas on board from today and implement it in your business. You’re going to make your sales team a whole lot happier because at the end of the day, Marketing role is to get the prospects into the room sales role is to turn the prospects into purchases. So. Again, the better you do marketing, the easier it is for sales and the easier it is for sales, the easier it is for you to hit your growth, your growth goals. So I hope you’ve learned something here today, guys. Um, you know, this is a really hot button issue in all of marketing right now, especially with us likely to come into a recession in the next few months, we’re going to be doing some really interesting things. Throughout those few months, because there is a massive opportunity. On the horizon, which I can’t wait to reveal with you all very soon. Um, but guys, if you liked this episode, please do share it with your friends. 

Don’t forget to subscribe to this podcast. If you get value from it, we publish two to three episodes every single week. On the perils and the power plays of growing your SAS company, your B2B company, your online brand on line with the power of digital advertising, direct response copywriting, and a whole lot of marketing strategy. I’m your host Dean, Denny founder and director of Owendenny digital Australia’s top-ranked SAS marketing agency. And if you like what we do and you want to engage us. Hit. The show notes and hit the link to book a 10 minute chat with me, more happy to discuss and figure out. Who you are, what you’re trying to do and how we may be able to help you. 

Hope this episode has been well for you. And I’ll speak to you when I speak to you. God bless stay well. 




Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠


We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠


Don’t Build Your Customer Acquisition Funnel Until You Get Your MQL Situation Right

In this podcast, Dean Denny, the founder of Owendenny Digital, discusses the importance of generating high-quality marketing qualified leads. He emphasizes the need for qualitative analysis when evaluating the effectiveness of gated content offers and lead magnets. By matching leads to LinkedIn profiles, company information, and industry verticals, businesses can gain valuable insights into the customer journey and tailor their content creation process accordingly.

Dean highlights the significance of optimizing lead quality over quantity and recommends investing in higher-quality leads to outperform competitors. He concludes by encouraging listeners to review their CRM data and leverage the information to strengthen their marketing strategies and funnel optimization.


In this podcast, you will learn:

1) Qualitative analysis matters: Evaluating the quality of marketing qualified leads is crucial for successful campaigns. Matching leads to LinkedIn profiles, company information, and industry verticals provides valuable insights into their stage in the customer journey.

2) Optimize lead quality over quantity: Focusing on high-quality leads rather than solely on volume yields better results. Investing more in acquiring higher-quality leads can give businesses a competitive edge.

3) Tailor content creation: Analyzing lead data allows businesses to refine their content creation process. Understanding what leads are looking for and adjusting messaging accordingly can improve lead quality and engagement.

4) Don’t overlook the customer journey: Assessing where leads are in their business journey is essential. Sending leads through a funnel that aligns with their stage of readiness and needs ensures better conversions and customer retention.

5) CRM data is invaluable: Leveraging CRM data provides valuable information for optimizing marketing strategies. Tracking leads, analyzing their characteristics, and using that knowledge to refine campaigns can lead to more effective customer acquisition and retention.



[00:01:16] Generate quality MQLs with numbers.

[00:03:25] Track leads, measure cost, improve quality.

[00:06:47] Qualitative analysis of leads.

[00:09:34] Improving lead quality through research.

[00:10:52] Gated content strategy

[00:12:09] Grow business through direct response advertising.


Hey everyone. How are you going? This is open-source growth. My name is Dean Denny. I’m the founder and director of Owendenny Digital, Australia’s leading digital marketing agency for software companies, online brands, and so much more where we take the best of direct response advertising, media buying, and marketing growth strategy to help software companies achieve T2D3 growth and a whole lot more. And today, guys,

I’ve got a really cool little hack that you can use inside of your business before you go out and build a full stack customer-getting machine. Now, this is a really interesting one, because right now at Owendenny digital, we are testing a handful of gated content offers. So, if you have landed on our website recently, you will see that we are running LinkedIn ads checklists, Google ads checklists, Facebook ads checklists, um, SaaS user growth guides. We’ve got a whole lot of gated offers.

That we are testing with our market. And the reason behind the fact that we’re testing all these different gated offers is because we want to understand how can we generate as many marketing qualified leads as possible that not only provide us with great volume, but also great quality. Now a lot of people, especially the digital marketers who do this solely by numbers, they play the quantitative game. If you are running.

Marketing qualified lead campaigns or. You know, PDF campaigns or gated offer campaigns. Anything that enables a user to exchange their contact information for a part of a resource or a document or a free training or a guide you’ll essentially generating marketing qualified leads who may not have any form of commercial or transactional intent with your business at this point.

Now, what’s really interesting here though, is that. If you are your typical direct response, advertising media buyer, you’re just going to be look at the quant, which is the quantitative. Now what does quants mean? Quantitative means the numbers. How many downloads? How many clicks, what was the conversion rate of clicks to downloads or clicks to subscribes? And how can we optimize for this number?

Now there is a huge challenge in the software vertical, which we experience every single day, where people are constantly chasing the numbers and they’re painting their SaaS companies by numbers every single day. They’re just thinking, oh, well, if we get more free trials, it means we’ll get more users because on average, you know, 3% of free trials turn into paying users, they have a lifetime value of this and yeah, that’s all great.

Like you do need to understand the quantitative side of your customer acquisition machine. But where we are seeing the greatest value. In developing a full stack customer getting machine, which takes people from marketing qualified. To sales, qualified through a series of nurturing emails and workshops and live events, et cetera, et cetera, through to jumping on to sales calls throughout and through to becoming clients who provide you with not just a great client agency relationship, but also a great lifetime value for your business.

See the challenge is that if you’re going by quant, You’re going to think. Oh, okay, great. Everyone who downloads X lead magnets, going to provide us with so many more deals because we’re able to get them into the database faster and it’s going to be cheaper and it’s going to be great. But as I’ve said on previous podcasts, that’s not always the case because if you are constantly chasing low cost marketing, qualified leads, your quality, not quantity. Your quality of these leads is going to drop over time.

So. For instance, what we are doing at Owendenny is we’re testing multiple campaigns, but with every single lead that comes through the door, and I’m not going to reveal what lead magnets working the best. But you can read between the lines here with our existing campaigns. We are looking at. The volume of leads that are coming through, but also each and every person who signs up for those marketing qualified lead offers now.

This is really simple. The fastest, the quickest and dirtiest way to do this is to number one, ensure that you have a CRM. So if you’re generating marketing qualified leads, we use HubSpot. We swear by the thing. Make sure that your leads are coming and getting plumbed into a HubSpot CRM or something similar. So you can go about tracking your costs, the number of contacts generated, and then you can have all your contact information there. And then.

The next thing we’re doing is we’re matching those names. And those domains to the appropriate country, we’re naming, we’re matching them to the appropriate industry, the appropriate vertical, the appropriate business name, the company, their position. And that’s where we start to see a very interesting picture because of the fact that with our marketing qualified lead campaigns, we’re able to see where they are as, uh, in their business, how big their companies are, where they live, what industries are they in? What sort of leads are they chasing?

Based on the way we’ve crafted our marketing qualified leads. We’re able to get a very good understanding of where these people are. In their business. So this is why it’s really crucial to test your quality here of your marketing qualified leads that you are generating, because if you don’t do that,

What’s going to happen is that you may get all the way down the line, sending hundreds of thousands of emails out every single week to try and get people onto whether it be a free workshop or generating sales calls. But if they’re at the wrong stage of the customer journey, based on the qualitative analysis you’ve done.

It’s going to be game over. They. Not only being the wrong part of the customer journey, but they may be. In the wrong type of business, they may be in the wrong size of business. They may not even be close to engaging you for their services, or it might mean. They’re not be close to engaging you or to signing up with your software because it doesn’t really suit them there. And then, so this is kind of like a twofold lesson here. Number one, when you launch your marketing qualified, lead based campaigns for your gated content to generate.

Volume to build out your database, be sure to do the qualitative analysis. Figuring out what company they work with. Do the old LinkedIn stalk. Figure out what size the company is, see what position they have in the company. See, what’s really fascinating. And I’ll just tell it how it is here when we launch a good lead magnet, because we’re in the direct response advertising space and we’re a digital marketing agency that offers this.

We often will have two types of leads that come through or maybe three. Number one, the business owner that isn’t quite ready to engage us. We have number two. Other are getting agency owners or other marketing professionals who are attached to marketing agencies who want to upskill themselves for either promotion or they want to go about establishing their own business. And.

Taking the best insights of what we’ve got and funnel hacker. So that’s number two or number three, we’ve got the high quality prospect. Now you need to be able to triage these three in our business to determine what’s really working from your marketing qualified lead campaigns. Because if you don’t get that right.

The whole thing will fall over. So. It’s really interesting. That not only do you need to do the qualitative analysis on these marketing-qualified leads that you generate? You also need to then look back at okay. I’ve generated. All these marketing qualified leads. These campaigns provide me with the most qualified marketing qualified leads.

And why is that? And that’s what you need to get really curious about. What are you saying in your ads? What do you, what does your lead magnet, what does your gated. Off content offer, or what does your checklist, your free guide, your training, your calculator, or your spreadsheet? Like what does that tell the customer?

And what promise are they buying into? You know, in the digital marketing agency game, most people are just buying into gimme as many leads as possible. Help me reduce my cost per cost of acquire a customer. Um, help me increase my customer lifetime value. Right. That’s what most people are buying into.

And help me navigate this platform or how me get this particular type of customer, right? Like that’s what most people are buying into. But within that, there are pockets of good. Customers, and there are pockets of good prospects. So then once you get curious and once you start to recognize, oh, okay, cool.

If I start changing my messaging from say, generate more leads versus reduced your cost to acquire a customer. What does that do to the lead quality? Chances are, you’ll find someone. Who is more advanced with their. They’re direct response advertising journey, and they’re thinking, oh, okay. And this is quite good. I need to be able to reduce my CACs so I can get as many customers through the door as possible. But then if you compare that to someone who’s talking about how to triple your customer lifetime value versus reducing your cost to acquire a customer that may even provide you with a more sophisticated.

Direct response, advertising specialists, then again. So. What I’m getting to here is that it’s not cut and dry when you’re generating a whole volume of a large volume of marketing qualified leads where you’re getting real gains is. Looking at the marketing qualified leads you are generating from your MQL based campaigns.

And then looking at the lead quality that’s coming through, look at every single one of those people. See if you can match it to a LinkedIn profile, a company, a company size industry, vertical, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And what they’re actually doing. Are they running LinkedIn ads? Are they running Facebook ads?

Are they running Google ads? Do you know anything about the SEO? Um, backlink profile and then you get a real understanding of where that person is inside of there. Business journey. Because then you can use this. To reinforce. Your gated offer content creation process. To go about improving your lead quality once again. And that is what’s really powerful. See a lot of people build their.

Typical gated content to a strategy call or their gated content to free trial. Based quote-unquote offers, like I know that Ryan dice and Sabri Suby have made it very popular to, you know, develop like a lead magnet and then offer a strategy call. And that’s the whole nature of reducing their cost to acquire a customer.

Through that sort of. You know, two stage. Funnel, and I know Russell, Brunson’s a big proponent of this. However, if you do this wrong, And your. You’re literally setting up your gated content. Um, offer landing page, which is just based on volume. And then you send them into your upsell page for a free strategy call or a free trial, and the quality of your users that are signing up on the squeeze page for the gated content offer is terrible. No, one’s going to be signing up to the lead magnet.

No, no, no. One’s gonna be signing up to the strategy. Call my apologies. So like, we’ve got to get this right guys, like if you are a SaaS growth marketer or if you’re a digital marketer or an e-commerce cat, like whoever’s listening to this today, this is really, really important stuff. Because. If you don’t get this right, your whole funnel falls over.

So, this is why I’m a huge advocate and you’ve can probably hear on this podcast for higher quality leads, pay more for your leads. Pay as much as you possibly can for your marketing qualified leads. Providing the high quality, because you will outperform your competitors hand over fist every single time. Remember Dan Kennedy said he could spend the most to acquire a customer is the winner of this direct response, advertising growth marketing business. So.

This is why. And this is my call for you. If you are generating MQL. Please get into your CRM today, go through your leads, and see how good their quality is. Stack it against a LinkedIn profile, stank it against a LinkedIn company profile. Have a look at what they’re doing in the Facebook ads. Library have look at what they’re doing on their LinkedIn profile. See if you’ve got SEM rush so you can determine how much money they’re spending on Google ads and what their backlink profile is.

And then once you can start seeing which MQL campaigns are actually generating you, high quality leads. You then can take all that information and then reinforce your MQL content creation process. Once you’ve got that locked in and dialed that’s when it’s time to optimize your next step in your Ryan Deiss slash Russell Brunson’s slash Sabri Suby gated content plus strategy call plus demo offer funnel.

That is it everybody? I hope you got something out of this. This is. I think this is one of my best podcasts to date. And may I say. And if you’ve got some value out of this, please share this with your colleagues, friends, or a founder that needs this. We do this for free for SaaS founders, online business owners.

You know, course creators, agency owners, whoever who’s willing to open their mind to an empowered way of using direct response advertising to grow their business. This is what it’s all about here at Owendenny digital helping business owners, software founders, uh, online brand. Owners, whatever, grow their business through the latest and greatest in marketing strategy, direct response advertising and world-class media buying.

If you liked this podcast, please do subscribe. We do pump these out every single week for good people like you to grow their business. And if I don’t speak to you soon, I hope this has been valuable. I want you to go about implementing this and if you need any additional help, go check out the job notes below.

Not the job notes. The show notes below. So where you can go about booking a free strategy call with me. Or booking just a quick 10 minute chat to see whether or not Owendenny digital can help you and your software company grow. Through the latest and greatest in what we do. I’ll speak to you all soon. This has been valuable to talk to you we’ll talk again now.




Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠


We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

Want To Level Up Your Life? Find 3 Hobbies.

In this podcast, host and founder Dean Denny, discusses the importance of having three different hobbies to enhance your life and business. The first hobby should tap into your creativity, allowing you to explore new ideas and perspectives. The second hobby should focus on fitness, keeping you physically and mentally healthy to perform better in your business endeavors. The third hobby should be one that generates income, providing an additional source of financial stability while also offering a fresh perspective on your business.

Engaging in these hobbies not only adds color and balance to your life but also connects you with like-minded individuals who can support and inspire you.


Here’s what you will learn:

1) Balancing work and personal life: The podcast emphasizes the importance of having hobbies outside of work to prevent becoming too consumed by business. It suggests that focusing solely on work can lead to burnout and affect the quality of your work. It’s essential to find a balance and engage in activities that bring you joy and fulfillment outside of work.

2) Cultivating creativity: The podcast suggests that having a hobby that allows you to tap into your creativity can benefit both your personal life and your business. Engaging in creative activities helps you exercise your creative muscle and brings more vibrancy and inspiration to your everyday life. It can also lead to innovative ideas and approaches in your business.

3) Prioritizing physical and mental health: The podcast highlights the significance of staying fit and taking care of your physical and mental well-being. Engaging in a hobby that keeps you active and promotes a healthy lifestyle can have positive effects on your overall well-being. It can improve your focus, productivity, and cognitive abilities, ultimately benefiting your business performance.

4) Creating additional income streams: The podcast recommends having a hobby that can generate income. Having a secondary source of income through a hobby or side business allows you to explore new opportunities and perspectives. It can provide financial stability and a different lens through which you can view your primary business, potentially identifying new strategies or avenues for growth.

5) Building communities and connections: The podcast emphasizes the power of hobbies in connecting like-minded individuals. Engaging in hobbies can help you meet new people, form relationships, and join communities where you can share experiences and learn from others. These connections can provide support, networking opportunities, and even potential business collaborations.



[00:01:20] Winning is more fun than fun.

[00:02:08] Level up life with hobbies.

[00:06:18] Find creative hobby, get fit.

[00:08:20] Hobby for fitness, health, confidence.

[00:10:21] Find hobby, make money, feel better.


Hey, everyone. Welcome to open-source growth. I am your host Dean Denny, founder and director of Owendenny digital. And today guys, this is a unique podcast. This isn’t going to be one on software. This isn’t going to be one marketing. But it will influence your ability to launch incredible marketing campaign. So it will also enable you the opportunity to become a bigger and better version of yourself. Because one of the things that entrepreneurs and growth marketers and e-commerce business owners. Like we all just get totally obsessed with our businesses. Right. So it doesn’t matter. Whether you’re a freelancer, who’s aspiring to take their digital marketing agency from one person to five people. Or if you own a software company.

That’s you know, 20 people deep with you, but like 15 devs, a couple of marketing people, a couple of sales guys, whatever. Or your a accounting firm or even a fish and chips shop. It doesn’t really matter where you are. On your journey. You know, Running and growing a business can be addictive purely because of the fact that.

You know, winning is addictive and.

There was this really famous podcast by, um, Andy Frisella where they talk about. How winning is more fun than fun is. And. It got me thinking. The other day. Well,

If winning’s fun.

And winning is more fun than fun. I can spread a pretty dangerous message. Don’t you think? Because. What it can force us to do is just get totally. Completely and utterly obsessed with our businesses. But we can fail to focus on other things which are. Supplementary and. Other things, which I personally believe can make a bigger difference in your life.

See, I personally believe that. You need to have three. Different kinds of hobbies. To level up your life. And here’s why. See, if you’re just focusing on business. You can often just get so caught up in your own shit. And get caught up in the sales tent and get caught up in the marketing in, get caught up in the podcast.

Like the one I’m doing today. You can get caught up in your content creation or your products development or your. I don’t know your HR issues or whatever. And.

There’s this expression, which I’m a firm believer on that, you know, all work and no play makes Charlie adult boy. And it’s true, you know, if you watch. You know, The workaholic type business owners. And if they’re trying to run their marketing at the same time, More often than not the marketing style. It’s flat. It’s boring. And no one’s going to want to actually go back clicking on that content offer..

So far or that sales call or whatever. See, I personally believe you need three different types of hobbies because hobbies provide you with so much more energy, so much more life and so much more. You know, So many more colors to paint the palette. Of your life and paint the palette of your dreams. Now I’m not just using the word or the number three, just to be like, Hey, you need three hobbies. Go.

off and you know, Go create or go whatever, purely because of the fact that. Quite frankly. Um, it’s not like that. You need three different types of properties and each hobby needs to serve you. See, I personally have a few different hobbies and they also meet in unique ways and they’ve all together.

Enabled me to become a more complete person that enabled me to become. Uh, prouder person, someone who’s not just, you know, grinding it out, but also expressive and creative. And it’s enabled me to, you know, find real. You know, find that real like life force again. And I think if you’re feeling a bit flat, if you’re feeling a little bit out in that app, um, it down and out.

No, this could be the message you need here. In your life and I’m giving you permission. To follow your dreams and follow your heart. Yeah. So without further ado, what are these three hobbies? So. If you, I personally believe you need three different types of hobbies. You need a hobby that. Enables you to tap into your own creativity.

You need a hobby that makes you money. And you need a hobby that keeps you fit.

Now you could be thinking, oh, well, Sheesh. Why do I need these three things? You know, for instance, you might be an accountant. And you might be thinking, oh, well, I run an accounting company. Why do I need to be creative?? Well, quite frankly, you might need to be creative with tax laws. You may need to be creative with your marketing campaigns. You may be creative with your HR or your resourcing. You might need to be creative with.

Um, the way you coordinate meetings and. Figure out a way to wow. Your customers. So in hobby one, you need to find something which enables you to tap into your own creativity. For me. I love music. It’s no secret here. I love jazz and I love hip hop and R and B and soul music. And I love. Playing guitar. So, you know, if it was any given Sunday or any given weekend, you can find me composing and rehearsing and playing guitar and trying to learn new songs or figure out how to play something or whatever.

And with a hobby that enables you to be creative. Like there’s such beautiful tangential benefits. Not only are you able to exercise that creative muscle in your business, but it really does breathe life into your, into your everyday. Because if you think about it, you’re being creative. You’re actually.

Physically, like from the word you, by definition, you are. Taking things from concept and turning them into reality. So if you like, music’s my thing, but it doesn’t have to be yours. Perhaps you’d like to write stories, perhaps you’d like to, um, paint or you’d like to draw. Or you like to play with pottery?

Sculpt stuff like find a creative hobby and work at it every weekend. I’m not saying you’ve spent like all Saturday and Sunday constructing, you know, Furniture and tables out in the backyard or whatever. What I am saying though, is. Give yourself the permission to step away from the business and find a hobby that enables you to create, because you will see such incredible tangential benefits.

Inside of your business and it would just, it’ll just flow through and we’ll make you feel so much. More ease with everything. And we’ll give you confidence and self-esteem so. Get onto that guys. It’s a really incredible. Um, way to add the X factor to your business. The next one, which I’m sure that a lot of you already know is finding a hobby.

That makes you fit. Now, this is where. Yeah. Everyone knows that, you know, your health is your wealth, right? Like it can’t be said enough, especially when you are a high-performance founder. Business owner. Who’s trying to, you know, wake up early, stay up late work, long, hard, arduous hours. But the craziest part about this.

The longer you work, the fitter you need to be, not only do you need to be fit physically, but you need to be fit mentally as well. And, you know, When stress builds up, you know, you start seeing the mental cloud and the mental fog setting in. It’s not good. It’s not kosher. It’s not nice. And it’s really, really difficult because as your cognitive ability, declines,

Your tasks, the ones you. You know, 35, 40 minutes now take three fricking hours. That’s. It’s not efficient at all. So if you are thinking, well, man, I’ve got to get fit. Don’t just get fit for the sake of getting fit. Get fit for the sake of having a hobby. Now, for instance, my hobby is boxing. It used to be cycling, but I love boxing now. Like I’m obsessed with boxing. Um, you know, I would go box three to four times a week. I’d also go lift weights.

You know, three to four times a week in any given day, I’ve been a bit sick lately. So I’m eating to get back out there, but the reason why having a hobby, which that you get obsessed by and consumed by that heaps you healthy. Is that not only does it enable you to you. To get fit like with boxing, you ha you started developing nice shoulders and back muscles and chest muscles and arms, and you lose weight. You look good. You feel when you feel strong, you develop this reinforced level of confidence, but honoring yourself and making those personal commitments to yourself to get healthy, to get fit, to get wise.

It’s going to help. You and your business settings. For instance, with boxing, I now stand taller in marketing meetings. I’m I lead better. I’m. Better at dealing with conflict and, you know, there’s so much. I can’t really speak highly enough of boxing. It’s made a huge difference in my life. Um, but what I am asking you here is that if you don’t have a hobby, which gets you fit.

Look inwards and ask yourself if I’m going to play a sport, if I’m going to do something, which gets me fit. What would be good for me? Maybe it’s powerlifting, maybe it’s um, you know, doing like muscle comps or is it. Table tennis. Is it? Um, is it, is it, is it running? Is it cycling? Is it triathlon?

Um, look into something. That. You know, enables you to work on yourself, which forces you to get up early, to get to the gym. To clear your mind before the big day enables you to blow off steam, super crucial, like. If you think about ways in which humans can blow off steam. He can, he can take the health driven path, which is, you know, going out for a run, getting healthy journaling, all that stuff. Or you can take the not so enlightened path of, you know,

Doing drugs, it’s doing alcohol. Bitching with your friends, et cetera, et cetera. And that’s not going to help you out long term. So like find a hobby that keeps you healthy. That enables you to eliminate that brain fog. Enables you to develop some form of discipline and enables you to, uh, how do I say this enables you to get healthy, get fit.

And makes you look better. Uh, you’ll feel better and you’ll be able to step out into the world as a confident. Reinforced ironclad human being. And now this is the final one, and I think. That this is crucial because again, this makes you look at. The world in a slightly different way. See the last hobby that I recommend everyone have is a hobby that makes the money.

Now this hobby that can make the money. It doesn’t just have to be, you know, buying and selling real estate or buying shares or, you know, could be, um, you know, purchasing bonds or investing in other business. Stuff like that. Like, they’re all fine. They’re good ones, but it could be something as simple.

A simple though. Um, as unique as, oh, I have a hobby business. I have a little e-commerce store I do on the site, a little side hustle. You may teach guitar. You may teach clarinet. Um, you may, you know, you may, you may clean other people’s houses because you really enjoy being able to help out the elderly or whatever, but.

Have a secondary source of income through somebody that you really, really enjoy. You know, Like I’ve enjoyed. You know, trading on the stock market historically, and I really love that. I can’t wait to get back into that soon. AKI, you know, I’ve taught guitar on the side. I’ve sold dog biscuits to cafes on the side.

Um, you know, I’m just trying to think about all the other things I’ve helped out. I coach marketers on the side. You know, there’s a whole heap of. I would say, you know, heart led business that I do. Away from the marketing agency, because it enables me to see the world in a different way, but also.

Enables me to. How do I say this? You know, It recharges me because it provides me with something different from the business and trying to scale up. And, you know, if you have that additional hobby that makes you money, you start looking at things differently. For instance, just say you’re into buying and selling, um, company stocks. It enables you to look at your own business.

Through the eyes of a share trader or a fundamental investor or institution. Um, that does invest in companies. And you think, why would I invest in my company? Well, The balance sheet isn’t very good. Or I would invest in my company. I’d be throwing the house at it because my profit. Um, my profit to earnings ratio is so damn high, et cetera, et cetera. You know what I mean? So,

Finding that hobby that makes you money. Can also enable you to look at your own business with a new set of eyes. And enable you to find additional profits in your business, but you get to have a whole lot of fun along the way, too. Like it doesn’t really matter what it is, but just find something you enjoy. You might love restoring and selling furniture. You may love restoring and selling cars. You may love flipping and selling bottles of wine.

The find that hobby commit to it and have a good fun there because what’s interesting in all of these three unique hobbies, not only will you be able to tap into your creativity. You’re not only will you be able to reinforce a level of confidence and bring a whole new level of discipline to your life, or even put a few extra hundred, if not thousands of dollars into your pocket every single month.

It will also enable you to tap into new communities. See. Hobbies are incredible because they aggregate like-minded people. All together. That can share in what you love. That can. You know how stories they’ll people who are looking to bond and you’ll feel like you’re connected and you’re part of something. And as a founder, you know how lonely it can be.

And with hobbies, it enables to bring all these people who are just like you together, you get to bond and you get to. Um, enjoy and share. In this. And what’s often really interesting is that not only will you meet people from different walks of life, but you probably will also meet people just like you, who are using this hobby as not so much an escape from their business, but also something which may supplement their business as well.

And, you know, what, if you’re a B2B business, you may even be able to make some money from these communities in these networks. And you’re able to form through your hobbies. So guys. That’s my thoughts. I have three hobbies. I’d love to know what your three hobbies, heart. If you do have three hobbies and how they go about influencing you in your life and in your business. Shoot me an email. My email is dean.denny@owendenny.com. You can check that out in the show notes below.

And I’d love to know about the hobbies that you, um, take part in every single day, because they do make a massive difference in your life. It can make such a magnificent. Difference in your business and all enable you to really think and push the envelope in the pursuit of your dreams. So guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. If you want to know how we can help you grow your business through the latest and greatest in direct response, advertising, social media marketing.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠


We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

What A Trip To The Optometrist Taught Me

In this podcast episode, Host Dean discusses his recent experience with eye soreness and how he sought out a specialist for advice. He reflects on the importance of listening to professionals who have specific expertise in a particular field. Dean emphasizes the significance of positioning and brand authority in influencing people’s decisions. He highlights the need for businesses and individuals to establish their unique positioning in the market, demonstrate competency, and differentiate themselves from competitors.

Dean also shares his company’s focus on serving the software as a service (SaaS) market and the advantages of targeting a niche audience. He concludes by encouraging listeners to consider their own market positioning and differentiation strategies.


Here are the lessons you will learn from this podcast:

1) Recognize the value of seeking advice from professionals:

2) Positioning and brand authority matter: Professionals with a strong brand authority and a well-defined position in the market are more likely to be trusted and influential.

3) Narrow specialization attracts attention: When seeking assistance, people tend to pay more attention to individuals or businesses that specialize in their specific needs rather than generic service providers.

4) Differentiation is crucial: To stand out in a competitive market, it is important to establish what makes you unique, whether it’s your approach, expertise, or unconventional beliefs.

5) Focus on outcomes and benefits: In marketing, highlighting the outcomes and benefits of a product or service, rather than just its features, can be more persuasive and emotionally engaging for customers.

6) Embrace direct response advertising: Direct response advertising offers an opportunity for effective persuasion and engagement with customers, particularly in industries where messaging tends to be simplistic.

7) Niching down can lead to greater influence: Targeting a specific niche or audience allows for better differentiation and the ability to connect with customers on a deeper level, leading to more impactful influence and business growth.



[00:01:26] Eye infection leads to optometrist.

[00:05:08] Listen to experts for advice.

[00:07:04] Expertise yields attention, success.

[00:09:09] Focus on SaaS marketing

[00:10:11] Niche to influence customers at scale.


Hey everyone. How you going? It’s Dean here and welcome to open-source growth. Your number one destination for SaaS marketing, direct response advertising, and anything to do with sales and marketing that will blow up your online business. Now, today is a classic because only a week ago. I started experiencing real soreness in my left eye.

So for the past month, we have been hustling and grinding at Owendenny digital. For good reason, we’re really looking to acquire really high quality clients. We’ve got some amazing. Projects that we’re currently working on and it’s demanding a lot of me and it’s demanding a lot of the team and s ometimes when you are a founder and I’m sure you can relate, sometimes you just need to go for it in short bursts or in sprints, as we say. In the project management world. And that’s what we’ve been doing. There is a d ownside to sprinting from time to time in, it makes you feel flat and it gets you down.

Now what’s really interesting was that my eyes were thought they were just dry because I was looking at screens all the time. And you know what it’s like looking at screens. Your eyes hurt. Your dopamine levels all over the shot and you’re thinking, oh man, my eyes are so dry. So I was thinking. Do I get some.

Do we get some ointments? Do we get some eyedrops or something? But none of that worked. ’cause I didn’t do it obviously. But what was really fascinating. Was that my left eye started to hurt more than the other. And I was thinking, oh, why is my left eye throbbing so much? This is really painful.

And I. Started feeling down like all my energy was getting sapped throughout the week and I woke up the next morning with this big. Blob on my eye. And I was thinking, what in the world is going on here? It was in the corner of my eyes is big looking pimply thing. My eye was bloodshot. I was it, my, my eyelids started to boil over so I could barely see it looks like I had like really skew one really squinty eye.

And one big eye, it was almost like that I had one eye. It looks really funny. It looked almost like I was captain feathersword with an eyepatch it was just freaking crazy. It was sapping all my energy. I was ran down. And I, and my wife was looking at this thing. Apparently it’s a sty and she was telling me, Dean, that’s a sty..

I think you’ve got something in your eye, this isn’t very good. And then I asked my mom about it and she’s oh, you probably just got to sty Dean . And I didn’t really care. And I didn’t really think much of it. But then you know, the pain. It kept on coming and it kept on coming in another day or two persisted

I was just thinking, I might, I need to go see an optometrist or something. I need to go see someone. I got to see a specialist. I don’t want to go see a doctor. I want to go see an optometrist because they are an eye doctor. I booked the call. I jumped in the car. It’s a short drive from home and I knew that I have pretty close to 20/20 vision. I was just squinting in one eye and the other eye was fine. So I was cool to get to the optometry could jump into the car.

Got out of the car. Went to the optometrist. Walked into the Specsavers where I live and I’m on near where I live. So jumped in the car, got to the Specsavers, walked into the Specsavers.

Got walked across to the waiting room. I was sitting around. And then I spoke to an optometrist and her name was Jess and Jess was lovely. And Jess. Came at me with a friendly tone. Sat me down. In the chair, I put my chin in like the eye observation thing.

She was doing a whole heap of tests. She was dropping all these different eye ointments and dyes in my eyes, so I could figure out. So she could figure out what was wrong with me and whatever. And straight away. She goes through it. I was like, look down, it looks like you have a cyst in your left eye.

What you’ll need to do is take four doses of. Insert antibiotic here or eye treatment stuff here and you also need to do a hot compress and I’m like, oh, what’s a hot compress. It’s basically a hot tea towel. Put it on your left eye. And hold it there for an extended period of time.

And it was really interesting. And I was like, oh, this optometrist knows absolutely everything about the eye. I’m going to listen to this person. I’m going to take their advice word for word and just do it straight away. So she gives me an over-the-counter medication to go by. I race straight to the priceline or the pharmacist or the chemist, wherever you come from.

And I go about buying that over the counter. Come back home, apply the thing, doing all the stuff, and I’m getting it all to happen really quickly. And I was just thinking I received. The same information from my mother. I received the same information from my wife and I received the same information from the optometrist, but I only took the optometrist’s advice.

And I was just thinking like, why is that? Why do we only listen to medical professionals when it comes to our health? And it’s the same thing. Like why do we only listen to lawyers when it comes to legal advice? Like, why do we have a bias to listen to people who have that body of knowledge? And it’s because of that phenomenon of positioning and having brand authority and by having brand authority and positioning.

You have greater leverage in your market. It’s a go about influencing masses of people. Now, this is why it’s so crazy nowadays, because so many. Marketers going out there and creating a whole heap of content. On their particular body of knowledge. And if you’re getting action and hit up by this content.

You’re more than likely. You’re going to listen to them more than just anyone who is a generic market. A so for instance, just say your looking for a Facebook ads specialist to support you and your business. Are you going to. Tap the shoulder of a generic, like a random marketer or are you going to go to a Facebook ads, specialist, agency?

Or if you’re a SaaS founder and you want a a SaaS copywriter. Are you going to go to a standard copywriter or are you going to go find someone who specializes in writing B2B SaaS copy. Or if you’re looking for say someone to run your demand generation team, are you going to look for a generalist marketing manager, or are you going to look for someone who’s spearheaded, the demand generation teams of the world’s biggest companies like Stripe and HubSpot. See, we pay. We pay more attention to people who are narrow in their specializations. We pay more attention and are influenced more heavily by these people because.

Their body of knowledge.

Is directly related to what. You need to address. So if that optometrists has a better body of knowledge in regards to the eye, and I’ve got an eye problem, I’m going to listen to that optometrist. I’m not gonna listen to my mom or. I’m going to listen to my wife, but probably not at the same extent as I listened to this optometrist, because that person’s got specific specialist, data points, specialist experience, and specialist knowledge.

Around the eye and had to go about fixing these problems. Which. Has me thinking and it probably has you thinking, what are you doing? Not only from a business, but also from a personal perspective, what are you doing about your position in the market? What content are you creating? How you demonstrating competency, how are you demonstrating confidence, how you demonstrating case studies, how you showing people that you can solve their problems.

How are you positioned with respect to everyone else competing over the same customers? Are you more likable? Are you edgier? Do you have any unconventional beliefs around your market and the problems that you solve?

You’ve got to ask yourself these questions, because if you don’t address. What makes you unique and how you can differentiate yourself with respect? To the rest of your market and the rest of those prospective customers, you’re going to have a real struggle. Finding people. To sell in the long run, because if you can’t differentiate, you will die.

If you can’t differentiate, if you can’t find a compelling position in the market to occupy. You will struggle to influence people. Who are likely to buy your services? C. We made a conscious decision at Owendenny to focus on the software as a service. Market purely because of the fact that software companies are chronically underserved by marketers for many reasons. Number one,

It’s complex selling technical products. Number two. The software company game. Is chronically, how do I say this? The messaging is chronically underdone. Everything is too simplistic. No, sorry, nothing. How do I say this? It’s more about features than actual outcomes and benefits. There’s nothing emotional about the copy and there’s no, and there’s a huge opportunity for massive persuasion through direct response advertising. And number three, we liked the technical challenges, but see if it wasn’t for our choice to be.

Marketing agency that focuses on SaaS products.

We wouldn’t be able to influence the people in our nation, just as bad as well. So if we were just like a standard marketing agency and we were trying to tackle. The small business market. It’s really hard to differentiate yourself. Unless you want to say that you’re a marketing agency that focuses just on SMEs.

That might be a different story, but there’s so many SMEs out there. The person just say, you’re trying to target fish and chip shops. Just say you have a marketing agency that focuses on helping out fish and chip shops and fast food companies succeed online through digital advertising versus the generic agency. Who are you going to listen to?

It’s that power of niching down and having a compelling position in your marketplace, which has enabled you to influence customers to buy at scale. So guys, this is just a short one. I hope you guys are enjoying this new format. I’ve had some really positive engagements since the last podcast I’ve ran on my podcast. My poodle.

And doing an AB test on me. I thought that was pretty cool. And it’s really exciting. And connect with some amazing people and coach some amazing people out of that too. So thank you so much for tuning in everybody. If you would like to learn more about Owendenny digital, feel free to jump onto this podcasts job notes or sorry, podcast show notes.

And then go through and click any of the links there. We offer a free 15 minute friendly chat. To see what you are about what we’re about and see if we can help you. But if you know that you need to engage a direct response advertising agencies to support your growth in your SaaS product or your online product.

I hit that link. Book of growth diagnostic, and we’ll see you on the call guys. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for tuning in, have an amazing day and be well. Talk soon.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠


We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

AB Split Test On Me

My Poodle Just Ran An A/B Split Test On Me. Here’s How

In this podcast episode, Dean Denny, the host and founder of Owendenny Digital, shares a humorous story about his experience with his poodle, Zoe, and relates it to the importance of testing and varying marketing and sales offers. Dean discusses the need for both marketing qualified lead offers and sales qualified lead offers in B2B SaaS and enterprise companies. He emphasizes the significance of constantly testing and refreshing these offers to meet the evolving needs and desires of customers.

Dean also encourages listeners to explore new approaches, conduct market research, and leverage tools like Ahrefs and Semrush to develop effective lead magnets. He concludes by highlighting the importance of ongoing testing and innovation to drive successful sales conversations and achieve rapid growth in SaaS startups.


Here’s what you’ll learn:

1) Vary your offers: It’s important to have different types of lead qualification offers, such as marketing qualified lead offers and sales qualified lead offers, to attract and engage potential customers.

2) Test and experiment: Don’t be afraid to test new offers and approaches. Constantly evaluate the effectiveness of your marketing and sales strategies and be open to trying new things.

3) Stay updated: Keep track of industry trends and customer needs by utilizing tools like Ahrefs, Semrush, and Google Trends. This allows you to create relevant and timely offers that address specific pain points.

4) Adapt to change: Offers that have worked in the past may not always remain effective. Be willing to adapt and create fresh marketing and sales offers that resonate with your target audience.

5) Continuously innovate: Launching and testing new offers is an ongoing process. Regularly experiment with headlines, offer names, body copies, and strategies to refine your approach and better understand what your customers truly need.



[00:00:53] – Exciting free offers for leads.

[00:05:07] – Split-testing toys on master.

[00:05:42] – Vary offers for success.

[00:08:47] – Test offers, find customer desires.

[00:09:36] – Testing new sales strategies.


Hey everyone. And welcome back. It’s open-source growth. I am your host Dean Denny founder, and director of Owendenny digital. Australia’s leading SaaS marketing agency. Now. I have an absolute herder. Of an episode for you all. Today and it’s a. And this is a really funny one. It’s approximately what.

It’s approximately 5:30 PM. It’s a Saturday evening, Saturday. The 20th of May. And I was sitting on the couch. With my beautiful wife, Hannah, who is also our head of copy here at. Owendenny digital and. Before sitting on the couch, Hannah and I have been hustling away. Creating the new. Demand generation funnel for our marketing agency.

And it’s all really exciting. We’ve got some amazing free offers for you all to jump on in. See what we’re all about. All the psychology-led t ools and tactics, we will be sharing with you for free. In exchange for you to jump into our database and see whether we’re a good fit for you, et cetera, et cetera, you.

Typical. Marketing qualified leads, sales qualified lead. Stuff. And obviously we’re developing a whole heap of them. And before we sat down on the couch, I was making this beautiful hot chocolate. It’s a sacred cacao. Hot chocolate. I don’t know what that means precisely, but it’s glorious. If you are ever in the Geelong region and you are looking for an afternoon, pick me up, come by our house at about 3:30 PM.

Our hot chocolate is almost becoming friend famous. It could be state famous or region famous at some point, who knows. So I’d made this beautiful hot chocolate. Were hustling at the kitchen table because when me and my wife. We love to Work together on the weekends. So people feel like there’s some form of solidarity I’ve made the hot chocolate. We stand up from the kitchen table and we walked down to our living room and sit on the big Chesterfield couch. And. What’s really funny. And what happened this time? Was as soon as we sat. At our Chesterfield couch at chief goodies girl, i.e. Our dog, Zoe, the poodle you can see on our website as part of the staff members.

Zoe, the poodle comes up to me. And lodges. Her rubber bone. In my groin. And I’m sitting there with a hot cup of cocoa or cacao I’m drinking it. I’m like, I’m not that interested in playing with your big rubber bone. It’s this oversized rubber bone. I would say it’s about 18 to 23 centimeters in length. It’s blue. It’s got like this tie pattern it’s made of rubber.

And I’m just like, this is gross. It feels slimy it’s between my legs and what we’re found through a lot of dog training is that. By just leaving. Items, it doesn’t give you any, it doesn’t give the dog any energy towards the item. And by doing such a thing, The dog. Just sits there. It just relaxes and it doesn’t want to keep on playing. So the dog gets bored.

I just leave it in my groin. It’s a big gross. And lucky I’m wearing these thick American blue jeans. And Hannah’s sitting next to me on the Chesterfield couch. And Zoe is looking at the bone. And it falls on the ground. She plays with the game, but she gets bored and walks away. All right.

And then it’s about five to 10 minutes of peace. Hannah and I are talking. And talking and laughing and having a great time. And then all of a sudden. Is that he comes back with another toy. And this time it was. Rubber sheep. And then all of a sudden that landed in my lap. And like it like the bone, it was slimy. It was disgusting, but it was all, and it was all over my jeans. And.

And then I’m like, oh wow. The rubber sheep, it’s here. Oh my God. Zoe. You’re so incredible. And then I start putting the rubber sheep in Hannah’s face hannah starts, we all start doing the play fighting thing. And then all of a sudden I’m playing with. I’m playing with Zoe.

And like literally out of nowhere. My poodle. Has figured out. What toy she needs to give me in order for her. To play with her. See if you understand the way dogs work. They are constantly running little hypothesis tests, right? Basically every time they. Just say they pick up a toy and then they give it to somebody.

They’re thinking. Okay. If I can. If I conduct this action pick up the toy and give it to my master. What will my master do? And if the feedback’s positive, they’ll keep on doing it. And if it’s negative, they’ll stop doing it. And then they’ll change their approach and they would keep on changing the toys.

And I was like, hang on a second. Zoe just hasn’t given me. I toy. She’s actually split, tested her toys on me.

I’m like, hang on. Zoe’s doing some direct response advertising stuff on me in real time. She’s given me one offer. Playing with her slimy blue. Disgusting. Toy. Her bone toy. And I looked at it. I’m like, I’m not interested, but as soon as it was the sheep, I am like all in. I am thinking, this is so damn exciting. I’m playing with her. I’m getting Hannah involved and this is the greatest thing ever.

And it just reminded me of some of the work we’re doing with some of our enterprise clients that you need to be varying your offers from time to time. See, I personally believe that every B2B SaaS company. Every B2B enterprise company. Every Company that has a large high ticket sales structure needs to have two types of lead.

Qualification offers. You need to have a marketing qualified lead offer. And you need to have a sales qualified lead offer. And what’s really interesting though, is that not only do you need to have a marketing qualified lead offer which generates contacts to wedge into your database in exchange for some form of free guide or free training or tutorial or spreadsheet or checklist or yada.

But you also need a sales qualified lead tool as well. And that could be a free strategy session, or that could be a. The ultimate guide to choosing a HR agency or 70 questions to ask your your outsourcing firm or et cetera, et cetera. But what that guide would need to do is drive sales conversations.

And yeah, that’s all great. Have an MQL and have an SQL, but if things are starting to slow down, don’t be afraid to test them. Don’t be afraid to try new things. Don’t be afraid to just get rid of what you’re doing and start over with a fresh new approach, because what can happen is that to begin with me playing with that blue, rubber bone may have been the most exciting thing for Zoe and I, cause obviously we’ve played with it before, but I just didn’t want to touch it anymore.

It’s gotten old, it’s gotten slimy and some of your offers can get slimy too. I know I’m speaking metaphorically here, but sometimes your free offer that worked for years and years, again, years and years over and over. Like for instance, you say you had a free checklist on how to save up to $3,000 each year by.

Eliminating these following subscriptions, like it could be a free guide or whatever that may have worked for the last three years. But. Now that you’re running it. That may not be that may not be working for you anymore. So be open to testing, new things, be open to trying new things. Be open to creating and publishing again, CHATGPT can help you come up with some amazing lead magnets in record time.

Because if you can do that. And you can constantly test these marketing qualified lead offers. You’ll be able to determine, I put a finger on the pulse in regards to what the customer is looking for at this time. And if you can. Find that intersect, which is the societal desire of your prospect at any given time.

You’re going to have a much better chance of initiating sales conversations with your target customer. And that’s what my poodle taught me today is that you can never you can never forget to test your marketing qualified lead offers and creating new marketing qualified lead offers. Again, you can go to places like Ahrefs and Semrush and Google trends to see what people are searching in your industry.

And then developing guides, which enable them to handle that. That hot button issue. You can never go about testing and trying new things when it comes to your sales qualified leads. For instance, in our agency, We’ve got the friendly 10 minute chat. We have the growth diagnostic. We’re going to soon have the Facebook ad audit. The Google ads audit the T2D3 growth strategy session. There’s going to be a whole heap of sales qualified leads that you will be seeing in your Sales qualified lead campaigns that you’ll be seeing in your newsfeed in regards to how we go about generating and attracting new customers into our marketing agency. See. You can’t come up with enough of these because you need to constantly be testing headlines, constantly testing, offer names, constantly testing, body copies strategies, et cetera, et cetera, and documenting these over time. So you can then determine exactly what your customer needs.

With pinpoint accuracy. But don’t forget, this thing does change. So you always have to be launching and testing and trying new things. So that’s what my poodle reminded me of today. And I hope. Zoe. My beautiful black standard poodle or my wife and I’s beautiful black standard poodle are reminds you of too. Don’t forget to create new marketing qualified leads and sales qualified lead offers.

And don’t forget to test them. This is open source growth. I am your host Dean Denny, and I hope you have had a hoot listening to our little story today. Again, if you need any more support and or advice around your SaaS startup and how you can take your business from where you are today to a T2D3 growth of mammoth.

In record time. Why don’t you just go about applying for a 10 minute chat, check out the job notes, click on the link. And leave you. Information with us and we can take it from there. Again, I’m Dean Denny. I hope you’ve been well. This is open-source growth. Be well.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠

We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

Your Last Digital Marketing Agency Sucked

Your Last Digital Marketing Agency Sucked? Here’s 20 Reasons Why You Were DOOMED To Begin With…

In this podcast episode titled “Your Last Digital Marketing Agency Sucked? Here’s 20 Reasons Why You Were DOOMED To Begin With…,” the host, Dean Denny, discusses common issues faced by companies when working with digital marketing agencies. He emphasizes the importance of selecting an agency that understands the target audience and has technical knowledge of the product or service being marketed.

Dean highlights the need for agencies to specialize in the software-as-a-service (SaaS) industry and understand its unique challenges. He also points out problems related to inflexibility, communication gaps, lack of transparency, and short-term focus over long-term growth. The episode concludes with a discussion on data ownership and control, urging businesses to be cautious when choosing a marketing agency.


Here’s what you’ll learn:

1) Select an agency that understands your customer: Ensure that the agency has a rigorous market research and customer profiling process to effectively target your audience.

2) Look for a marketing agency specializing in the SaaS industry: SaaS companies have unique challenges and marketing requirements, Avoid agencies with limited industry expertise.

3) Communication is key: Look for an agency that communicates effectively and promptly. Misaligned expectations and communication gaps can lead to mistakes and hinder progress.

4) Demand transparency: Ensure that the agency provides transparency in their strategies, tactics, and results.

5) Avoid a one-size-fits-all approach: Each SaaS company is unique, and marketing strategies should be tailored accordingly. Steer clear of agencies that apply the same solutions to every client without considering individual needs.

6) Prioritize long-term growth over short-term gains: Avoid agencies that focus solely on quick wins

7) Retain ownership and control of your data: Be cautious of agencies that claim ownership of leads or landing pages they create.



[00:00:24] – “Scale up success through marketing solutions.”

[00:01:56] – Failed with other professionals/agencies.

[00:02:18] – one size fits all” approach.””Agency’s “One Size Fits All” Fail”.

[00:02:35] – Understand customer needs deeply.

[00:04:45] – Lack of technical knowledge = game over.

[00:08:00] – Adapt Quickly to Changes.

[00:08:31] – Misaligned expectations lead to mistakes.

[00:09:54] – Lack of transparency in results.

[00:10:18] – Gray hat growth hacks: risky.

[00:14:07] – Long-term growth over quick wins.

[00:14:27] – Lack of data ownership, control.

[00:16:43] – Media buying without strategy.

[00:19:27] – Track end-to-end performance with HubSpot.

[00:22:53] – Clear ownership, documentation key.

[00:23:36] – Overpromise, underdeliver: Beware!

[00:26:14] – “Bootstrapping? Skip the agency.”

[00:28:13] – Know needs, plan, coach, prove, nurture, value.


Hey, everyone. Welcome to open-source growth. The number one destination to help you and your SaaS company, take it to the next level with direct response advertising, paid traffic and all sorts of growth hacking. I’m your host Dean Denny, founder, and director of Owendenny Digital. And if you like what we do on this podcast, I urge you to subscribe, share and distribute the message that we’re spreading here because at the end of the day,

It is our mission on the planet to help as many scale-ups, startups, and enterprise SaaS softwares. Blow the hell up through the latest and greatest in marketing strategy, direct response advertising solutions and a whole lot more. Now in today’s episode, this is going to be a little bit of a controversial topic for you all. And this may be myself cannibalizing or throwing the paint back at my colleagues in the digital agency world. But. More often than not. When we see customers come into our door at Owendenny digital, they’ve had a bad agency story before, whether it’s someone reputable or they’ve hired a freelancer, or they’ve gone with a more obscure agency that I’ve never heard of, but we always hear the same five to 10 problems that come through or the same things. I’ve we’ve paid the invoice and nothing happened. And we had a few nice chats, but there was no real deliverables achieved. Or that is ran all these ads. They overspent by a hundred percent and they spent like an extra $7,000 on our credit card last month with the Facebook ad campaign or.

They’ve done. Something wrong or they just didn’t hear anything back from the account manager. There’s a plethora of excuses here. Or a plethora of reasons why these agency relationships fail with SaaS companies and not just SaaS companies. You could be an e-commerce brand, a small business, a services based business, like an accountancy or a bookkeeper, or even a fellow.

Marketing professional and you’ve worked with another marketing professional or agency someone, not us, but someone else obviously. And it’s all been pear shaped. So in this episode, I’m going to give you 20 compelling reasons why you would doomed to begin with when you worked with your digital marketing agency and to get this one kicked off, I want to talk about.

The agency’s ability to understand your customer. The reason number one. Especially when you’re a SaaS company and you have a highly technical product. You need to ensure that when you select this marketing agency, that they really do understand your target audience. See at Owendenny digital we get sent into the deep end with some of the trickiest target audiences to tackle on the planet. We’re working at targeting CTOs to fill them with great developers were working with.

Governance, risk and compliance professionals to sell them additional software that they need to make their life a whole lot easier. We’re working with MSPs, we’re working with all these really exceptionally technical and difficult. Companies in terms of being able to pitch to that target customer. So if the agency doesn’t have a rigorous market research and customer avatar profiling

Process in place, you may have really fundamental issues when it comes to getting your marketing to work. That’s just an undeniable fact. So again, if the customer avatar hasn’t been profiled correctly, And there’s a real inadequate understanding of the target audience. You’re going to be in a whole heap of strife. That’s reason. Number one, reason. Number two.

They simply don’t have the technical knowledge of your product or service. Like I know this is going to sound like me. Teaching you how to suck eggs, but you would be shocked. See marketing was never a super technical thing. 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, and then not really teaching kids these days or interns or graduate marketers, even senior professionals.

How to get amongst your product and understand what it does. See. And this has something to do with the client as well. So I’m not going to say that the agency’s fully liable here, but here’s the thing. If your marketing team doesn’t want to run through a product demo with you, or it doesn’t want to sit through.

The sales presentations that you’ve created. Or it doesn’t want to even get an instance of your SaaS product, like to say your slack, if you, if that team’s not using slack. How will they ever be able to sell your product effectively and how will they ever be able to develop the technical knowledge they need in order to create compelling marketing messages? That’s a real, crazy thing. So if the person doesn’t really understand the technical knowledge of what your business actually does.

It’s going to be game over. So that’s reason. Number two, why you may suck. Number three, and this is more of an industry specific thing, but a lot of marketers simply do not understand the software as a service industry and its unique challenges. See if you go to an E commerce agency for your SaaS company, you’re going to be in for a world of hurt.

Because the way at the e-commerce marketers work may have a really strong content, heavy, direct response advertising approach. However, with the SaaS industry, That’s only part of the puzzle you have to do with marketing qualified leads. Sales qualified leads. Booking appointments, getting customers on board, reducing your customer acquisition costs. So your CAC is, and then developing a solid nurturing sequence to again, reduce.

Your churn rate and also increase your likelihood of people turning from a free user to a paying user. See, these are completely different. So working with. An e-commerce agency, which may only be truly focused on a free guide, which nurtures them into a cheap purchase and then upselling them along the way. It’s a completely different kettle of fish. There’s truly unique challenges. And.

They need to understand how do you maximize customer lifetime value with a SaaS product, with respect to an e-commerce business? It’s completely different. Because. This now leads into number four because it is the thing. If they don’t understand the SaaS industry, they’re going to number four, lack the limited.

They’ll have limited industry expertise and specialization in marketing SaaS products. That’s the truth. See if you’re a SaaS company and you need a SaaS marketer, you don’t go find an e-commerce marketer. And it’s the same thing. If you’ve got a foot problem, you don’t go see a dentist. You see a podiatrist and that’s what we’re starting to see.

If you are a SaaS company, if you are a software company, or if you’re involved with reselling. Software as part of the space, I urge you to book a call with us and see how we can help you partner up to to reduce your customer acquisition costs, to make your dollars go further, but also achieve that level of growth.

Which your CEO. Or your directors, or even you as the entrepreneur are really ambitious and hungry for. So they’re for massive reasons when it comes down to the company and the avatar. But now I want to talk to you about the actual marketing solutions that you’re investing in. Now let’s just talk about the team you’re working with to begin with this is number five.

And in flexibility and inability to adapt, to changes quickly, see a good marketing agency, a good direct response advertising agency recognizes that some of the best ideas. Come out of the ether when you least expected and you need to attack when you can. It’s a bit like boxing you just can’t go in there with a premeditated attack and it’ll all be fine. Sometimes you need to roll with the punches and be able to count it like Floyd Mayweather does in his fights.

So if there’s a really an, a flexibility or inability to adapt to changes quickly, You’re going to really struggle here. See the thing is the world of PPC and social advertising is truly dynamic. If that’s not understood when you know the cost of advertising rise. Decrease there’ll be additional competition.

There’ll be ad accounts going down at accounts coming back online. If that’s not really considered, it’s going to be so much hurt here. So again, you need to have a really solid workflow process, which is all agreed upon between agency and client. And if that’s not done well, You’re gonna have some challenges. If you know what I’m saying.

Number six, communication gaps leading to misaligned expectations and mistakes. Again, as I said, there. If there’s high quality. Expectations. Established at the beginning and the expectations are established and aligned effectively. You can really knock a lot of these things over.

But more often than not. Your expectations are misaligned and communication gaps just open up and they flood. Your business. At the end of the day, if your agency isn’t communicating effectively with you enough within reasonable time if they’re not getting back to you within that 48 hour window,

You’re going to have to ask some real questions about your company and how it’s really performing there. So that’s what I would be really looking into. Ask your agency or your next agency hire. How quickly do you get back to us with respect to correspondence? If they say within 72 hours or 48 hours, that’s about standard. If they say same day,

Yeah that’s unbelievable. And again, you just have to see if the proof is in the pudding. If you decided to engage that agency. Number seven lack of transparency in strategy, tactics, and results. This is a big one. Man a lot of agency was right now. I promising growth hacking solutions for e-commerce businesses or Saa S companies or a whole heap of crazy stuff there. And the thing is that growth hacks are exceptionally gray hat. And when they’re gray hat, these growth hacks have a short window where they work and if they don’t work it’s game over.

Not only for your account, you could get shadow banned or whatever. If it’s an organic growth hack, or if it’s a paid growth hack, you could probably lose your account and your ability and your right to advertise on these big platforms. Again, if you don’t have this right, if you don’t have like true transparency of what you’re doing, if they’re not giving you an understanding of the tactics they using for your SEO efforts and the results they giving you more importantly.

I run for the Hills. Like you need some transparency here. And we’ll get into that in a second. So let’s get to number eight. There’s a one size fits all solution. Policy at that agency. Now, this is where it is crazy because. SaaS companies are as broad as e-commerce companies like don’t get me wrong. The solution is similar, but it’s never the same. See some e-commerce businesses may have a lifetime value of a customer of several thousands of dollars, and some may have only several hundred dollars. And the way you market to someone who spends a lot of money with you.

Versus only a little bit of money with you, that’s completely different or that the frequency in which they purchase and here’s the thing that like a lot of SaaS companies we work with have a monthly recurring Invoice with their clients of a thousand dollars a month. Some may only have 150.

Others may have three and a half thousand dollars a month. And the way you nurture these customers. Is so different. If it’s $150 a month, it’s probably a couple of emails and some really simple, direct response advertising stuff. That’s cool. No sales calls, nothing. Just getting buying on the page. Sweet. We’re good. But if it’s a complex SaaS product, which is a $3,000 investment each month, there’s sales calls, there’s lead nurturing campaigns, there’s marketing qualified leads or sales qualified leads. There’s individual metrics, all of that stuff. And you can’t just copy and paste the same approach. Four different SaaS companies, more importantly as well that each SaaS company sits within its own vertical in itself. It’s not just like a generic SaaS that helps everybody.

So that’s a really big one here. That’s number eight, number nine. This is one that kills me every time. Short time focus, prioritizing quick gains over long-term growth. If your agency is constantly prioritizing the quick gains over the longterm growth of your business. This is something you need to be alert and about.

The reason why you need to be alerted to this is purely because of the fact that. Short term gains are generally tactical. You need an overarching strategy, which powers long-term growth. If you don’t have that, you’re just going to be chasing the next, hit the next flood of cheap leads or the next flood of cheap customers, which will do bad things for your business longterm.

And you won’t be thinking about playing the long game. So get on top of that. It’s a cancer. It’s not fun. Number 10. There’s a lack of long-term commitment and investment in the SaaS company success. So if you’re again, a SaaS company here, what we do see is because there’s this short term focus of everything, there’s no real lack. There’s a lack of longterm commitment. And.

This is partially the agency’s fault, but it’s also the client’s fault and it’s also the markets for it. No, one’s really a blame. It’s just what it is. See the world we’re going into is a month by month culture. We’re not committing to working with an agency for six, 12. 18 months, two years at a time.

And because that is the case. What we’re starting to see is that the agency doesn’t have the promise from the customer that we’re going to be here 12 months. We can build out your 12 month plan. I get the strategy, right? So there’s real legitimate growth over the long term, but what we’re now starting to see is people are just constantly forced to perform month in, month out, and you’re pursuing the quick wins over the long-term. Juggernaut, which you could create. So again, It’s not quite everyone, but again, get on top of your agency hiring process and see where they sit. Are they focused on the short, the quick wins or are they focused on the long term or do they do a blend of both? That’s where you want to see.

Alright, the next one. How many have we done so far? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Holy smoke. We are at number 11, which is. This is a marketing solution issue. There’s a lack of data, ownership and control. Be very careful who you sign up with as a marketing agency, because I’ve heard some agencies own the leads or they own the landing pages.

Which they create and you never get access to that. In fact we’ve heard. Many times where clients have come in the door and they’ve had to literally copy the landing pages which they paid for and then get it redone by another developer. So they can basically keep their ad campaigns going live.

Purely because of the fact that the web agency or the digital marketing agency. Held them hostage. It was crazy. So you got to get on top of that guys. So just. Understand who owns the data. Who controls all that stuff. And how do we ensure that you remain in control as the client, all of the data and controlling that.

And the products that are created, of course, Number 12 inconsistent results with varying levels of success. This kind of harks back to that whole understanding of the short term focus versus the longterm growth. If there’s inconsistent results. It’s probably something to do with the angles that they’re using. So you can ask yourself, how often are they refreshing their creatives? If there’s inconsistent results, you’ve got to ask yourself I, we in a seasonal business, if there’s inconsistent results, like why is there inconsistencies?

Can you see the data? And if there’s any data here that promotes the inconsistent nature of these results, how can we go about mitigating or working with this to our advantage? Anyway. Number 12, I believe. Lack of integration with overall business strategy. Again, marketing agencies, especially the nature of the game and the agency.

Industry. What we’re starting to see is that a lot of clients come to us or they come to our competitor agencies. We all talk. We’re all friends, right? And what we’re starting to see is people are just coming in and they, all they want is just media buying. They don’t have a business plan. They don’t have a.

Marketing calendar. They don’t have any form of promotional calendar. They just want meat. They just want a quick jab in the arm and there’s no. Integrated marketing calendar that is embedded within their business plan. And because there’s no planning, there’s nothing here. The business goes nowhere. And because there’s no integration.

There’s never, there’s really no results. Again, this is one of those things where the marketing agency needs to prod and prime you to see, where are you in your business maturity. Have you got my business plan? Have you got a marketing plan? Does your marketing plan have a promotional calendar where do say Facebook ads, Google ads, LinkedIn, all that sort of stuff fit in.

If you don’t have any of that integration, you need to invest in some form of strategy. Level engagement with that agency or with a third party provider again. I’m just speaking from experience here, the clients that get the best results with us are those who invest. In chief marketing officer engagements, where we go about doing many things, which where it’s about building out a marketing calendar, building out a marketing strategy, then figuring out the tactics that we’ll use week in, week out, or the initiatives, which we will be rolling out and then being able to measure them against a matrix.

That has all the KPIs in it, but again, see how that’s integrated. That’s a whole suite of stuff. That’s not just running Facebook ads, but that’s the way you go about really getting results. We can talk more about that. We’ve got some really exciting things coming in the pipeline at a later date. But again, that’s where.

A real marketing agency absolutely crushes it for you. Next on the agenda, inadequate reporting and ability to measure ROI. Guys, if you haven’t done it already ensure that you’ve got a really high quality Google tag manager slash Google analytics 4 slash. Hotjar measurement stack. It’s so crucial because you need to ensure that your marketing agencies using the right.

UTM parameters, which are basically strings on the end of your URL, which give you the source, the medium, the campaign, et cetera, that your traffic is coming from. So you can go about tracking conversions effectively, especially with these platforms not working out well. But the big thing that we’re starting to see more importantly, is just get HubSpot, hurry up and just do it.

We’re a HubSpot provider. We can help you here. Because HubSpot is seriously early platform that measures end to end advertising and sales. In the sense that you can track all your marketing efforts and the context has come in all the way from literally the email address through to the amount of money you’ve made on that client longterm, where they came from.

What pages did they hit? What ads did they click on? What agreements did they sign? What invoices have they paid? What haven’t they paid, et cetera, et cetera. It’s all there. Use HubSpot again, need some support here. Let me know more than happy to chat. But again, get some really high quality CRM inside of your business.

So you can go about measuring your agency performance. In fact, I would take it on upon your own to have that prior to engaging in agency. Either get another agency to build the CRM or a really good ROI process. Otherwise it’s going to be game. Over. All right. Next. Limited adherence to brand guidelines, leading to inconsistencies in messaging.

And branding. If you don’t have brand guidelines established for your business. Your going to be in deep doggy. Do’s when you give an agency a brief, this is what we want us to look like. Bloody, blah. This is the copy. This is the words we don’t use. These, the words that we do use this is how we refer to our customers. Here’s a work example. If you don’t provide any of that and give it to the agency and they were on wild.

Game over. It’s really difficult to get it right here. So if you’re unable to. Provide people with Brand and guidelines, I would suggest find an agency that has similar brand guidelines or a brand that has something which you can borrow and massage it to your own before handing it across the agency. Get that right. And then there’ll be real congruency between what you already have and what they’re delivering.

And then finally, and this is the last of the marketing solution bullets. How many have we gone through here? We’ve gone through 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. And this is number 16 here. There’s not too many left. But this is this one kills me. This, and this is number 16. There’s limited campaign ownership.

And inability to make changes or iterate on successful strategies. Yeah. This is a fascinating one because often the lines need to be drawn between what the agency’s allowed to do. And what they’re not allowed to do because. If they don’t. Get that opportunity to be able to separate things out properly.

It’s game over. See, what we’re starting to see is that. We hear of my friends agencies or other ones we hear. That the agency sent something live. They wanted to make some changes. They couldn’t get it approved all of a sudden All of a sudden someone higher up in the client’s company talks to the marketing manager and says, Hey.

You’ve let these marketing campaigns go live. You need to shut them off. Now we’ve got to stop things with this agency. This is completely wrong. It gets them on the moment of rage or whatever. And then all of a sudden the agencies like literally hung out to dry purely because of the fact that.

They haven’t been able to get their own stuff. Reviewed and approved by say the marketing manager or the CMO that they’re working with. So What I want to you. Emphasize here and let you know, is that. Having really clear campaign ownership in. And documentation to support that.

Is paramount and getting this right. So that’s from a marketing solutions perspective, there’s about 12 things where things can go wrong, but let’s now talk about the HR side of things here. Here’s the big one. Over promising. And under-delivering that’s item 18 here today, guys.

So many times in so many things like the always gets sold by some slippery sales dude. Over promising oh, your life’s going to be cited for an all these inquiries. What can you do? How many inquiries do you close? Has all kinds of great based on this ratio, you’re going to be able to get a 20 times.

Return on investment blahdy, blahdy, blah. And then they under deliver. I wonder why you just got hyped, the living hell out of, by some slippery sales guy. Just be careful when you jump on these calls with these agencies, don’t get me wrong. A professional sales guy is a great person to have an, a great person to talk to in your In your pursuit of hiring an agency, but ensure that you get a chance to speak with the marketer as well, because if you don’t speak with a marketer, How do you really know? Because the sales guy doesn’t have the experience when it comes to profiling a customer I’ve taught, they don’t have the experience when it comes to.

Profiling your product, developing a feature benefits, matrix, understanding what the functional, the emotional and the financial benefits are of your product. Like how would they know? They just salespeople come on. Get that right? You. So you’ve got to really understand who you’re talking to. I understand that there will be bold promises because that’s how they get you in the door and they will under deliver.

If they don’t have the right to him, behind them to deliver what they promise. So again, check that out, evaluate the team who are you going to be working with? Who is going to be your copywriter. Who’s going to be your media buyer. Who’s going to be your protocol. If something goes wrong, who do you pick up the phone to and be like, yo, fix this right now.

You know what I’m saying? And then number 19. Is the time constraints leading to generic and misguided campaigns. Guys, you have to be fair and reasonable. When it comes to working with clients and So you have to be fair and reasonable when it comes to working with agencies. See. More often than not like agencies are given ridiculous timeframes or totally misguided timeframes. And because the timeframes are so compressed or they’re just like, so out in the distance, nothing either gets done or not enough gets done.

So having an agency, which can truly give you pushback, but it’s Hey, I don’t think this is right. We’ve got to do something else. We need more time to do this. This is a deadline we can’t commit to. If you start hearing that from your agency, it’s actually a good thing. Because if you’re hiring an agency, which is willing to push back on you.

It will mean that they have a better understanding of what it takes to get something like there. Really big things. And more importantly, you’ll get the product you’ve really wanted to begin with. Finally. Last thing today. And this is something we always have to talk about the money. A lot of agencies just are really expensive. And if you’re an early stage startup and you don’t quite have a customer acquisition funnel, and if you’re bootstrapped, like all get out.

Hiring a marketing agency may not be for you. So if your say. Into your journey and you’re not making over 5,000 or $6,000 MRR. In your SaaS company. I just don’t think hiring a marketing agency is the right thing for you at that time. Investing in a program to learn digital marketing or investing in a program to be coached as int into getting your.

Customer acquisition funnel, right? That’s a different story. I think investing in a coaching program so you can figure out the basics to begin with yourself. Is the way to go, but if you’re a low, if you’re just a small fry and you’re just starting out and you’ve got two, three, $5,000 a month coming into your business.

That’s when hiring an agency is not right for you. However though, if you are doing better, if you have got 15, $25,000 coming in every month from your software as a service company. That’s when an agency can start to make sense for you. Now. When you’ve got the I’d call this type of company, not so much the danger zone, but there’s a very precarious line in getting this right. Because if you’re not investing.

Money in advertising. You’re not going to get ahead, but if you invest too much, you’re going to destroy your cash flow.. This is when people can get hooked on the concept of tactical. Initiatives, which are short-term versus long-term because they need to get. Some from where they are now to where they want to be way too quickly. And it doesn’t make any business sense to do such a thing. My belief here. Is that you need to know what you need. You need to have a great marketing strategy in place. If you can’t invest in a agency to do everything for you, get them to build out your, a great marketing calendar and a marketing promotional plan. Get them in some form of coaching arrangement to begin with so you can get some stuff done.

And then as soon as you’re able to prove your customer acquisition funnel, as soon as you’re able to nurture those customers from marketing qualified to sales qualified, To closing and you can go about stretching out your customer lifetime value. That’s when there’s some real value in working with an agency, but.

If you’re not quite there yet. If you’re less, if you’re earning less than say $10,000 a month, it’s not worth the conversation for managed services. You’re doing more. If you’re fully, if you’re fully venture capital strapped different story, but if you’re bootstrapped and you’ll literally rub and knives together to make things happen.

An agency relationship is probably not for you. But guys that’s it. There’s the 20 items I have penned this morning. As to why. Your why your agency relationship was doomed to begin with. So guys, I know this has been a big one. If you like this, and if you found this valuable, please. Shoot me a message. My name is Dean. My email is dean.denny@owendenny.co m. I’d love to hear what you thought about today’s episode. If you do need support with your demand generation, your lead generation, or just general business growth, we can help you with your sales as well. So if you do want to see. Whether or not a relationship with Owendenny is the growth partner you need in your back pocket. So you can succeed this year.

Jump into the show notes. There’s two links. If you just want to have a quick chat and see whether or not we’re a good fit. Book a friendly 10 minute chat, no pitch, nothing, just simple diagnosis, simple evaluation of where you’re at and we can go from there. But if you do. If you are actively looking for an agency who doesn’t do the 20 reasons, why you’re doomed them to begin with? I have boom.

All you need to do is click on the, fill in your growth. Diagnostic assessment. Link in the show notes. You’ll see it there. And that will provide us with enough information to understand where you’re at. Where you want to go, what you’re trying, what you’re doing and what you’re not doing. So then we can start developing a prototype.

Marketing calendar or a marketing promotional plan for you. So therefore going into your next quarter. You’ve got a, an option. Which is not your old option, which was clearly doing the same thing, getting the same results again. And again if that sounds like something you’d be interested in doing remember to hit the link in the show notes.

It will take you to a Typeform leaves, some details with. It’s there and we’ll book a call. We’ll jump on that call together and we’ll see where you sit. So again, guys. Totally. Thank you all for tuning in. If you like what we do here, please subscribe to the podcast yet. Like this with your friends.

And if I don’t get to speak to you soon. Please get your business growing for us long lived growth. My name’s Dean I’ll talk to y’all soon. Cheers for now.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

⁠Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠

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3 Hard & Fast Rules for SaaS and Online Business

In this podcast, Dean, the founder of Owendenny Digital, discusses the importance of staying focused on growth metrics for SaaS companies and online brands. He emphasizes three hard and fast rules for success: setting clear goals and tracking progress, continuously testing and optimizing marketing strategies, and investing in customer success. Dean shares personal experiences and advises listeners to never lose sight of their growth metrics to achieve business growth and success.


Here, you will learn:

1) Setting clear goals and tracking progress is crucial for measuring growth and success.

2) Regularly monitoring key performance metrics helps establish baselines and track progress towards targets.

3) Testing and optimizing marketing strategies and tactics is essential to discover effective approaches and improve results.

4) Implementing an A/B testing protocol allows for continuous improvement and stacking wins on top of each other.

5) Collecting and storing learnings from tests and initiatives enables informed decision-making and better future performance.

6) Investing in customer success by providing top-notch support and a positive experience leads to higher customer retention.



[00:01:17] – “Business success requires focus.”

[00:03:28] – “Confused by Revenue Metrics?”

[00:03:57] – “Grow with metrics: SaaS startups”

[00:05:13] – Track metrics to grow business.

[00:05:50] – Weekly CPA/CPL tracking for success.

[00:07:39] – “AB Testing: Strategy Matters Most”

[00:07:56] – Test, Track, Compound, Succeed.

[00:08:38] – Stacking wins for business scaling.

[00:10:08] – Improve customer experience

[00:10:44] – Grow business with accountability.


Hey everyone. How you going? This is Dean here, founder and director of Owendenny digital, and welcome to open source growth. The leading destination for SaaS direct response advertising, customer acquisition, and anything that involves a credit card. Ad platform and getting your business to blow up online.

Now. Thank you for tuning in today. I really appreciate it. Every time we get to see a view or someone subscribed to the podcast. So if you are hell bent on enabling your SaaS company or your online brand or help whoever you’re helping online to succeed. Feel free to subscribe, share this podcast. If you get some value from it.

And yeah, joining on the conversation. So let’s get straight into it today. Guys, this is actually a cautionary tale. Believe it or not. I, as you would maybe aware, I run a boutique marketing agency called Owendenny Digital and we support SaaS companies, cybersecurity companies, online brands.

And a whole suite of businesses grow online through compelling, direct response advertising solutions, paid media services, uhh, marketing strategy, fractional CMO engagements. Et cetera, et cetera. Like we do a lot of amazing things for a lot of amazing businesses and we’ve got some amazing case studies, but you know what.

Sometimes running your own business can be tough. And I’m wanting to really ensure that you know that as a founder or a director or chief marketing officer because. It doesn’t matter how good you are marketing. If you take your eyes off the wheel with your numbers and your marketing strategy and your…y our growth targets and your ad costs and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You can be in a whole world of pain and hurt. In fact, we experienced a little bit of this morning. In our monthly management meeting to kick off the month, we were looking at our profit and loss, and we noticed a huge discrepancy between our growth targets and where we are currently at. And it wasn’t positive.

Full disclaimer. I had a bit of a panic attack, but now we’re okay. We’re on the podcast and we’re talking to you. Why does this happen? Like why can you be plodding along doing the actions, taking things off, launching campaigns, generating leads, closing deals, watching your pipeline, grow, seeing your SaaS company blow up or your agency or whatever. And then you get to the long and heart of it. And your so far between.

Where you want to be and where you are right now. Like how does that happen? See, it’s not so much a case of that. You’re not working hard. It’s a matter of the fact that what you’re doing right now, isn’t currently working. But how can you tell when a lot of the time you just feel like you’re creating content publishing, running ads, spending a whole heap of money with Google, Facebook, Linkedin and TikTok.

You’re..You’re just launching campaigns, your marketing people tell you it’s good. Your sales people complaining about the lead quality. You spending all this money, but then you look at your monthly recurring revenue or your forecasted ARR your annual recurring revenue. And you’re thinking.

What about my CPAs? What about my CPMs? What about my CPCs WTF? You’re just completely, panic-stricken in oh, why isn’t this all working out? You know what. There are three hard and fast rules you can live by in your startup. And these are three hard and fast rules, which we. Nine times out of Tam lived by it Owens any digital. In fact, these are the three hard and fast rules you should live by.

So you never keep your eye off your growth metrics within your SaaS startup. So let’s just get to it today because I think this will be super valuable for anyone. And it goes without saying. Anyone who has a SaaS company? An online brand coaching program, whatever e-commerce. It will help for all of you.

Here’s for number one. You must set clear goals and track progress. So you only know if you’re progressing. If you can measure one of the secrets to success is by being able to measure where you are progressing, believe it or not. It’s really interesting. I guarantee you, if you just go to the gym and you get uninspired, I can understand why.

But as soon as you implement an app or some form of tracking program, whenever you go to the gym and lift weights, you’re going to be more motivated to get out there and succeed purely because of the fact that. You’re actually tracking your progress. You tracking your volume, you’re tracking how much your weight gains are happening, how much you can lift, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s the step number one. So what do you need to go about measuring? First things first, you need to develop some KPIs or.

Key performance indexes to determine where you want to grow. Identify those key metrics that matter most to you? What are they? Is it your monthly recurring revenue? Is it your customer acquisition costs? What do you need to keep them between and be successful? Do you need to mitigate your churn rate? Is it sitting at a 23%?

And you want to get it down to an 8%. And how do you want to go about maximizing your customer lifetime value? You need to go about tracking these things every single month, so you can establish a baseline. Then once you establish that baseline, you then must set yourself some specific targets for each metric.

And regularly track your progress. In fact, this is what we do at Owendenny Digital with all our advertising solutions, for all our customers, we are checking the CPAs and the CPLs for both SQLs and MQLs every single week. It is super crucial in order for our clients to succeed. And again, if you need to develop a dashboard, if you need some form of analytics tool, do you need to create a spreadsheet? Make sure you’re doing this and visit these spreadsheets and have them working within your business on a weekly basis. In fact, any customer that has a dashboard.

We generally visited every week with our media buying team or a direct response advertising team. So you can be successful. And I need you to do that for your business, for the KPIs that do matter. So you can enable that T2D3 growth that you’ve always dreamed about. So that’s step one. That’s the hard and fast rule. Number one.

Set clear goals and track your progress. Hard and fast rule number two, test and optimize your marketing strategies and tactics. Duh. I know I have so many, so many podcasts on this, but I cannot emphasize enough that you must be testing and optimizing your marketing strategies on platforms and all the tactics every single week, because you never know through testing what you may stumble upon and you may strike the equivalent of black gold.

i.e oil in your game. So what acquisition channels are you using is a social media advertising. Are you running content marketing? Is it your inbound strategy? Which part of your inbound strategy is working your email marketing? Are you running SMS marketing? Are you doing trade show stance or do you use paper ads? Are you doing some offline? Have you got a really good.

AB testing protocol in place. These things all really matter. But again, most of these things. Our tactics. Within a broader marketing strategy. So as long as you’ve set up a great marketing strategy with clear goals, at the beginning of starting your financial years worth of marketing, you’re going to be in a really good place here because then you can go about effectively nesting in these tactical efforts and initiatives every single month. So then you can compound and see what works. Now, this is probably a bit of a bonus and I’m going to say, this is super paramount here is that you must not only have an AB testing protocol, but also a means of being able to collate and store your learnings. So month in and month out. You are able to then use your learnings and then roll them into the next test. So you are continuously improving upon your KPIs. So for instance, you do a split test and you drop your customer. Yeah, your cost per lead by say 20%. Okay, cool. We’re going to implement this again in the next split test, but then we will test another element and then you keep on.

Stacking those wins on top of each other. All of a sudden you’ve doubled your click through rate. All of a sudden you’ve doubled your you’ve halved your or even Dropped your cost per marketing qualified lead by 75%, then all of a sudden you’ve dropped your cost per acquisition by say 30%.

Then your business starts to scale for less money. So again, make sure you’ve got a means of doing the AB tests, but also a means of being able to collate and have all that information there at your fingertips. Super, super crucial. Now here is hard and fast rule. Number three, you must invest in your customer success. So it’s crucial, especially if you want to maintain those high growth KPIs that you’re investing in your customer success. Now, this totally means that your customers must receive top notch support through the entire journey with your product or your service or your business. So if you’re a marketing agency, what do you need to invest in? You need to invest in high quality account managers, great systems feedback. How do you get. How do you improve your marketing services? How do you improve your copy delivery? How do you improve your creative.

Your creative feedback process. If you’re a SaaS company, like what do you need to do to the product? What features do you need to implement? What benefits are being drawn from the product? Again here, the whole focus of what you need to be doing here. Is on increasing your customer attention by offering loyalty programs, incentives.

And other retention strategies. Here, can go about checking out that net promoter score and your customer satisfaction. Scores to ensure that you’re delivering a positive customer experience. So guys. They’re the three hard and fast rules that you need to live by. So you can enable your business to grow at the rate you wish to grow, because believe me, I’ve learned it’s costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way that if you lose sight of your growth metrics, your business starts to dive get on top of this and you will succeed because if you can hold yourself accountable to the growth metrics and the KPIs.

There’s no reason that your business won’t get to where it needs to go. If you found this valuable, please share it with a friend. I love you all. God bless. Stay safe and get your business growing for me. I’ll talk to y’all soon. Cheers for now.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠

We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

Chasing Cheap Leads

Chasing Cheap Leads Will Suffocate Your Business Growth


In this podcast episode, host Dean Denny, discusses the misconception of pursuing cheap leads for business growth. He argues that cheap leads often result in low-quality leads, negatively impacting a company’s direct response advertising efforts and brand reputation. He emphasizes that conversion rates and profitability suffer when focusing on cheap leads.

Instead, Dean suggests a different approach: focusing on increasing the lifetime value of customers and being willing to spend more to acquire high-quality customers. By optimizing the back end of the business and increasing revenue and profits, companies can dominate their industry. The key takeaway is that “he who can spend the most to acquire a customer wins.”


Here’s what you will learn:

  1. Quality over quantity: Prioritize acquiring high-quality customers rather than chasing cheap leads.
  2. Lifetime value of customers: Focus on increasing customer retention and loyalty to boost profitability.
  3. Strategic customer acquisition: View customer acquisition as a long-term investment rather than a short-term expense.
  4. Optimizing the back end: Improve customer service and product offerings to drive revenue and profits.
  5. Brand reputation matters: Avoid pursuing cheap leads that could harm your brand reputation and long-term success.



[00:01:40] – Avoid cheap leads: Will ruin your business.

[00:05:07] – Cheap leads can ruin conversion rates.

[00:07:33] – “Spend the most, win the customer”

[00:12:05] – Maximize customer lifetime value.

[00:13:45] – Cheap leads: bad reputation, bad conversions.

[00:14:51] – “He who spends most, wins.”


Hey, everyone. Welcome to open source growth. The leading destination for SaaS growth marketing. I am your host Dean, Denny founder, and director of Owendenny digital, and oh wow. I am excited to speak with you today about this. Unique phenomenon, which we all fall into. Believe it or not. If you’re listening to this podcast today, I’m sure you went through a stage.

Or you may still be in that stage where you pursued cheap leads, man. For every time I heard we need to reduce our cost per acquisition, or we need to reduce our cost per marketing, qualified lead, or sales qualified lead. Like the cost of advertising is too expensive. Blahdy, blahdy, blah. I heard.

And received a dollar. Every time I heard one of those statements, I would be an exceptionally wealthy man. Especially in the field and endeavor. That I work in as you know, we run Owendenny digital, I am the founder. And we help SaaS companies like yours, blow up online through the latest and greatest in direct response advertising, PPC management, social media ads.

Marketing strategy, fractional CMO services or whatever. But. This whole concept of cheap leads. It will totally suffocate your business. Growth. See, believe it or not. Cheap leads. I would argue, do more harm than good. In your entire business. Because cheap leads often lead to low quality leads and with cheap leads. There are four main reasons why you need to avoid the seducing thought that cheap leads are good for your business, and they will help you grow your business. It’s completely wrong. It’s completely cactus because it actually ruins your business longterm.

If your business is geared to only pursue the lowest, cheapest lead, this is what generally happens. Four things. Number one. Your direct response advertising efforts are driven to generate heaps of low quality leads. Now, when the lead gets… lead cost generally goes down that often means that the quality of the lead is getting worse. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a sales qualified lead or a marketing qualified lead. It gets worse and worse and worse. Now, I don’t know about you, but whenever someone asks me, Hey, do you want to purchase an email list? So we can go about canvassing, a whole heap of customers I’ve run in the opposite direction. And at the same goes for, you know, new emerging platforms where there’s low targeted.

It’s like there’s bad targeting options or you know, we’re running Google display ads at the top of funnel. Like these people, we don’t know where they’re coming from and all that sort of stuff. Like if you’re pursuing look cheaper and cheaper and leads, the quality is going to get worse and worse.

And. Let me ask you this. Do you have a sales team? If you do have a sales team, or if you are the person taking sales calls? Let me ask you this. If you generate yourself a whole heap of cheap leads that are low quality, and then you’re asked to make a whole heap of phone calls to see whether or not these people want your services. First things first, maybe they may not even be interested in your product. They might just be kicking the can and seeing whether or not.

Well, the kicking, the tires. And see whether or not you can help them. Number two, you may just not even want to chase the leads because they’re all crap. Instead of focusing on your valuable customers. Like you wouldn’t want to go about chasing all these. Crappy leads, whether they’re marketing qualified or sales qualified, doesn’t even really matter. So, you know, if you’re chasing cheap leads, the quality is going to go down.

That’s then talk about number two. If the demand generation team is focusing on generating cheaper and cheaper leads, you will succumb to negative impact strategies. That may influence your brand’s reputation. So what I mean by this is that if you have to use aggressive or spammy tactics or, you know, over-hyped headlines and clickbait you know, strategies in order to get people to landing pages or get them to sign up for lead magnets or get them into a sales call.

You may be perceived as unprofessional or totally unethical you. Don’t what we do here at Owendenny digital is exceptionally white hat. Ethical marketing. And if you are starting to do crazy stuff like this, it will damage your brand’s image and reputation in the long run. And. My gosh, it will make it so much more difficult to attract high quality leads and customers.

For you, especially as you grow and you grow and you grow. You know, As Warren Buffett says, I think it was Warren buffet. Anyway. He said that, you know you know, it takes a lifetime to build and only a moment to destroy. So, you know, we make sure you look at what you’re doing with your lead generation efforts. If you’re getting on the side of cheap chintzy, hype-y false advertising, you name it, whatever. And that’s purely driven by you know, low quality or low cost lead targets. You’ve got a real problem there. Like. You got to get you going to stop this. This is not good. So what happens when you have a low quality lead, which is cheap, that’s ruining your brand’s reputation. I can guarantee you that your conversion rates are going to drop.

Your conversion rate from marketing qualified lead. To booking a sales appointment is going to drop. And the number of people who would be sales, qualified leads, and then turning into real deals, that’s going to drop too. So even if you are able to acquire a large volume of leads, your conversion rates will get worse and worse over time because they may not even be looking to, you know, use your product or service in the first place.

And they may not even have the budget to purchase. So. You know, if your sales qualified lead criteria is only, you know, name, email phone number and location, instead of, you know, how much do you earn? What are your problems? What are you trying to address, et cetera, et cetera. If you’re not getting that information on the front end with your sales qualified lead. Yeah, your cost of sales qualified lead will drop, but your lead quality will diminish too. And it’s going to make it so much harder for your sales team to do anything contextual with its marketing efforts to support that person’s purchase and the customer journey. If you know what I’m saying. So. Again, chasing these cheap leads. It will suffocate you.

And finally, this is the one where the best businesses get it right. And the worst businesses completely cocked this up. Low quality, low cost cheap leads result in unprofitable customer relationships. So you, if you pursue cheap leads, It generally results in customers who are simply not profitable.

Cheap leads, discounts promotions to attract these leads. These people will generally, as a rule of thumb, always be a pain in the backside to deal with. You will be sacrificing profitability in the short term to acquire them. And then you’ll be over servicing them to deliver on your promise entire time.

There’ll be less loyal, more price sensitive, and we’ll make it so much more difficult for you to maintain healthy profit margins in your company over time. See there is a better way here guys. And thankfully you’ve listened so far because I want to show you a better way. Because there’s this guy called Dan Kennedy and he’s considered a God in our circles.

And Dan Kennedy came up with this phenomenal insight. And it’s this. He who can spend the most to acquire a customer wins. Now, it sounds like a really obscure, you know, Esoteric statement. But think of it this way. Picked yourself as a pizza joint. And just say, you know, that the customer lifetime value per year of a customer that you can acquire is say $300 to say, if you’re operating in Melbourne, Australia, you’ve got a pizza joint and your average customer sends $300 a year with you. That means. Okay, cool. For every customer I acquire. They’re going to generate $300 worth of revenue. Okay. Cool. And just say your pizza shop a and your fighting for customers in your neighborhood. And just say, you’ve got a budget.

To acquire customers. For say a hundred dollars. So for every hundred dollars you spent on advertising, you want to get one customer. Great. So that means, you know, if you spend a hundred dollars on advertising over the 12 month period, you’ve tripled your money in terms of revenue. Cool. So. If you can spend say a hundred dollars to acquire a customer.

Whenever, you know, the lead costs. You know, drop down. You can acquire more customers because you’re willing to spend a hundred dollars on a customer. But if the cost of advertising increases and you can’t spend a hundred, you can’t spend a hundred dollars and get a customer. You can only get customers. If you spend 150, that means your media efficiency is going to drop.

And you’re going to acquire less customers. But let’s have a think about it here. Now you understand the concept. Okay. If the cost to acquire a customer increases, but I’m willing to spend a hundred. That’s fantastic. Just say there’s no competition in your area and you can acquire. Well, you can, you’re competing with say fish and chip shops. You’re competing with the guy with the noodle box. You’re competing with KFC McDonald’s, whatever.

Just say, hypothetically, you go in there and the cost of acquire a customer in a certain week, maybe $20 and you’re willing to spend a hundred dollars. So what’s going to happen right here. Is that you’re going to be able to acquire five customers for every one customer that you normally. I used to paying for, and it’s all great.

But then. Another pizza shop may come in town. And then there’ll be like, hang on a second. This guy is spending. $20 to acquire a customer. I’ll spend, I’ll spend 125. So all of a sudden you’re willing to spend a hundred dollars per customer. Pizza shop B. Your competition starts to run ads and is willing to spend $125 per customer.

And just say the cost of acquiring a customer is what you set. How many customers do you acquire when you’re only spending a hundred and your pizza shop B is spending $125. Here’s the fat answer. Zero. And, you know, why that’s the case? Because pizza shop B is willing to spend as much as they possibly can or $25 more to acquire that same customer. And the only way you can get there is by matching it.

Now you’re probably asking on the podcast right now. Hang on a second. Why do I want to be spending so much money on leads and acquiring a customer? And then not only why do I need to keep on spending money here? If, if I can’t compete well, then how do I compete? Well, here’s the funny thing. The best business, the best brands in the business.

Your stripes, your, your Uber’s, your you know, your Facebooks, your like all those big tech players. These guys don’t look at the cost to acquire a customer. They look at the lifetime value of a customer, and then they optimize the living daylights out of the back end. See. The beauty of having a SaaS company or a business that has any form of monthly recurring revenue.

In its products and services, IE and agency is that you need to be doing all your advertising and all your internal work. With the goal of increasing your customer lifetime value. See, we have some clients that have been with us for five years and they’re worth a lot of money to us. And we also have some customers which are only here for short seasons, where they may only do a small three month campaign, a six month or 12 month campaign.

Now. Can you see what I’m trying to get to here? That these customers all have different lifetime values. But what the goal of being internally inside of your business is to actually increase your lifetime value. What can you upsell them? How can you bring them back into the shop? How can you sell them three pieces when they were only planning on buying two, et cetera, et cetera. Because what that enables you to do is increase the amount of revenue your businesses generating.

And if you can increase the number, the amount of revenue, your businesses generating, you’re likely to increase the profits. If you increase the profits, you’re more likely giving yourself more fat. To spend more money to acquire customers.

Can you see how this works?

He who can spend the most to acquire a customer wins. And if you optimize the backend of your business, You can be unstoppable. In your vertical.

Pretty groovy. Huh? Guys. That’s today’s episode. See chasing cheap leads will suffocate your business growth. Here are the reasons why. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a SaaS company, doesn’t matter whether you’re a e-commerce brand. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a managed services provider in cybersecurity.

A fish & chip shop, a junk food restaurant. A sushi train, like. It simply does not matter. Because at the end of the day, Cheap leads and the tailspin you’ll send yourself into is you’ll get the low quality leads. They’ll impact your brand reputation that would destroy. They obliterate your conversion rates. So your salespeople and everyone’s unmotivated.

And you’ll generate a whole heap of awful customers that are simply not profitable. You drive your sales team mad. You drive your management mad. Your investors will get frustrated with you. People will be pulling out left, right and center. Your brand’s reputation will be very hard to repair. But if you do things right.

And you optimize the lifetime value of your customer. Recognizing that the only way you can dominate industry is by willing to beat. Is to be by willing is to be willing, to spend more than your competitors to acquire. That great customer. That is how you win. So guys. If you can remember anything from today’s podcast.

Here’s the golden sentence. He who can spend the most to acquire a customer wins and that’s Dan Kennedy, that’s not me. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. This is open-source growth. If you got something from today, please share this with a friend or a colleague, or do one better, do us a solid and subscribe to this podcast. Every subscriber, every listen, I see every single one of these comments. And if you do like what we do here at Owendenny digital, please jump onto our website or jump into the show notes.

You can book a time to speak with me. To see how we can develop a very similar system. Like we’ve discussed in today’s episode. And a system which is designed to increase your customer lifetime value whilst acquiring very high quality leads inside of your business, that’ll enable your business to truly grow.

And not be suffocated by cheap lead targets. It’s been real. Thank you so much for tuning in. God bless, stay safe. And till next time. Bye-bye


Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



Two options:

1 – If you *already* know you need an expert to help you build predictable and scalable customer acquisition solutions to scale your MRR.

To get started, book a Free Growth Diagnostic using the link below and let us show you how we can help.

⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Growth Diagnostic⁠⁠⁠


2 – If you *do not yet know* if you would benefit from our services, book a FREE 10-min chat with Dean directly and let’s talk about your business.

Have a friendly 10-minute chat with Dean⁠

We look forward to hearing from you! ⁠⁠⁠

The Most Destructive Word In Your Business Isn't No

The Most Destructive Word In Your Business Isn’t “No”

On this episode of Open Source Growth, Dean Denny shares his personal development insights on sales and rejection, emphasizing the importance of definite answers and avoiding the destructive word ‘maybe’. He also discusses the common problem of small businesses not knowing their target market and the transformation they offer.

The conversation also touches on the fear of rejection in sales and how to overcome it. Dean suggests that rejection is not personal and that the more one puts themselves out there, the more likely they are to find success.


Here are some lessons you will learn from the podcast:

  1. Don’t be afraid of competition. It’s important to realize that competition is inevitable and can actually be beneficial in driving growth and innovation.
  2. Identify your target market and the transformation you offer. Knowing who you serve and how you serve them is crucial in developing a successful business.
  3. Don’t be afraid of rejection in sales. It’s important to understand that rejection is a natural part of the sales process and can actually lead to more opportunities for success.
  4. Don’t sell yourself short. Believe in yourself and your abilities and don’t let fear hold you back from achieving your goals.
  5. Personal development is important. Taking the time to reflect on your own personal growth and development can lead to greater success in all areas of life.



[00:00:54] – Empowering women to succeed.

[00:01:47] – Helping woman in need: Pick pocket or help?

[00:03:54] – Fearful of marketing: Rejection or Acceptance?

[00:06:53] – Yes/No: Decisive Action.

[00:09:05] – Definite answers needed for success.

[00:11:21] – Create certainty, take risks.

[00:12:12] – Think clearly, say yes or no.


Hey everyone, how are we going? Welcome to open source growth. I’m your host Dean, Denny founder and director of Owendenny Digital Australia’s number one, SaaS marketing agency. And. I found myself with some idle time this morning between pruning back. Keywords in our companies. AdWords account.

And waiting for my phone to charge. So I thought I would jump on here and have a very short. Personal development driven podcast today, which I believe could help you if you’re in this position. It’s really fascinating. I was having a conversation with my wife, Hannah, who also is our head of copy here at Owendenny Digital and.

We were talking about sales efforts and selling in general. And.

We had a friend over. And she’s a business owner herself. I think she’s at the very early stage of her business. And.

This woman was so brilliant. She’s incredible. She came over here. She’s overcome insurmountable odds. She runs these very small women driven businesses, which help women unleash. What’s inside of them and enable them to grapple with all the traumatic events they’ve gone through. Understand what sits really within them and then how to put one foot in front of the other to live a better life, or don’t make the same mistakes that she’s made. And she’s truly a magnificent person.

But she she didn’t know. What I did for a living, which was really refreshing to be Frank. And. This lady she was talking to my wife then talking to me and was asking. Ah, can I pick your brain? If that’s okay, because I’ve heard you’re in marketing. Had obviously told her at this time,

And typical me throwing down the old Joe Polish quote if you pick my brain, you picking my pockets too. So if you’re in professional services and people ask you to pick your brain and you can’t stand it because you sell. Strategy for living. Always use that line. Hey, if you’re going to pick my brain.

You’re picking my pocket. People get very defensive at that point, but that’s just the truth of the matter. Anyway, let’s just get to the, let’s get to the main potatoes of today. And.

Because I saw where she’s coming from and I could sense that she was a woman in need. I decided to help and listen and hear what was going on in her business. And she told me that she wanted to shut the thing down. Because too many other women in her area. Launching very similar. Businesses. Which are women’s circles. And she was getting afraid of the fact that she was seeing people.

Launch events where she would normally get five to eight women there. And these other people would get 15 women there. And. She was so deeply passionate about the work that she does. She’s deeply competitive. You could tell, but she was smoked screening, both Hannah and I with the fact that you wanted to shut it down because she’s had too much of it. And other people are more successful than her.

Which is complete bogus and. I took it upon myself to just give her the hard word and be like you’re full of shit. You simply are afraid of competing your simply. Trying to sell yourself on. Your victim story. You’re not able to grapple with the truth you, in that you are afraid of marketing and advertising and selling.

And then you just saw this. Look, come over her face and she was just like, oh, marketing. Oh, man, it just takes so much. I hate using Canva. I hate advertising for myself. I hate trying to do all this stuff. I hate putting myself out there. And you’re thinking, oh, wow. Wow. This is awful.

But it’s interesting. This person’s assuming that. Oh, wow. If I put myself out there, that means I’m going to get rejected more times, but on the flip side, Doesn’t that mean you’ll get accepted more times. You’ll actually go through enough through the law of averages you go through enough prospects and you’ll sell more people and you’ll bring more people into your service and they’ll be able to praise.

And you’ve got that more opportunity to generate more advocates for your business and promote your business through word of mouth. So you could see that there was a lot of like inner things with this person, which were very challenging. To overcome, but we got on top of it and we had some pretty good business chats and Like a lot of these small businesses that we see and evaluate the bigger problem is that they just don’t know who they serve and how they serve them. So they don’t know who they serve, i.e their target market, but what they actually do for them, what’s that transformation they offer. Because again, people are just buying transformations at the end of the day.

That was a big conversation and I’m 100% certain that there could be three or four podcasts span off of the back of this. Off today’s podcast. But. What was really fascinating was the conversation I had with my wife afterwards. And I was talking to her about sales and.

There’s. We were talking about rejection. And it’s interesting that. When people say Oh I don’t like sales because I’m going to get rejected. I used to be like, yeah, that’s going to eat away at my self-esteem to. But through listening to so many sales trainings over time and many ways to reframe your mindset around sales. Rejection is actually a good thing. No, isn’t the most destructive word in your business.

Believe it or not, it is far from it. See? Yes. Is a great word for your business, because that means you decisive. You’ve done the deal and you keep moving forward or this is confirmed yes, it’s a very positive word in your business, but I want you to think this through no is also a very positive word in your business. So yes and no, a great words because they tell you what you.

Have done or what you have, what you don’t. Or you haven’t done. What you do have, or what you don’t have, is this the right fit or is it not. Like these are amazing words, especially in the context of sales. See the most destructive word. Isn’t no. The most destructive and your word is simply not. Yes. Either the most destructive word in sales. And I would argue in your business and in your life.

Is maybe.

Let me repeat that again. The most destructive word. In your business. In your selling. In your marketing. And in your. Life. Is maybe. Why. Maybe it’s a half-built bridge. Maybe is. Half-built bridge, which you step over the side of, and you have a crack at doing something, but then you don’t follow through.

Maybe is lying in limbo in deep indecision. And you’re simply just putting off things if you say, oh, I might do this one day. Why aren’t you doing it now? You may not have the resources and stuff like that. How about you just commit to doing it when you have the resources? Or say no. And then just put it behind you and then focus on other things. See, maybe occupies your mind, maybe gets in the way of you writing great ads maybe gets in the way of you being able to explore other.

Opportunities and projects may be slows your sales cycle down, maybe clogs up your pipeline with all these half built bridges or these half done deals. And you’re perennially chasing your tail on things which rapidly decay in likelihood of closing in your sales process. See the most destructive word in your business is maybe it’s never been no.

See. When I look at rejection, I look at great. I’m one, no closer to a yes, because probably speaking one in four prospects that I speak with that are sales qualified. Going to become clients because we understand the clients. Sorry. Damn. However, What you see here with a lot of people is that they hang their dreams on maybes instead of yeses or nos.

There’s nothing worse than erode your self esteem than trying to Go on a date with someone that might go out with you. Like you’ve got a risk for the biscuit, but get a definite answer. Definite answers, concrete information.

That enables you to move on with your life. It enables you to move on with your marketing funnel, your marketing campaigns, your sales promotion, your sales activity, your operations, your hiring. Guys be real here. If you spoke to a builder. And he, you asked him, Hey, What’s soil. Are we building on what soil are we what soil are we digging into to lay these foundations? And he goes, oh, it may be sand. It may be this. And maybe that you would fire him because he’s building.

Your precious resource, your house on. Incomplete information or information, which is simply guessing, or he’s got no real idea of what’s about to happen. If you did know. If he does know what he’s drilling into or what he’s digging into,. You’ll be fine. You’ll be good. Great. Okay. If you don’t know what you’re drilling into. Okay, great. How do we find out what we are drilling into? Not this maybe thing, and then going after it, it doesn’t work out. So If I can give you something today for your business and for your life. I think it’s so totally. And it’s so insidiously destructive to have maybes in your life. If your wife or your husband asks you, Hey, Let’s go to. Let’s go to Bali this year. Can we do it say yes or no?

Or if you say no. Come to another alternative and actually create some concrete plans. Develop some certainty in your life.

Because certainty enables people to be competent. Competence, breeds confidence enables you to level up and take bigger risks, which enables your life. To be bigger than it was before. Like guys, come on. So next time you see yourself in your business using the word, maybe.

Realize that you were killing yourself. You are eating away. You are clogging up your brain. You’re clogging up your mind, your Headspace your what’s the word, your capacity to be able to think clearly, whenever you stuff, a maybe in there you’re creating a a door that’s a jar your committing to building a bridge, which leads nowhere.

But when you say yes or no. You can get somewhere. Guys that’s it today. I thought I would drop this one. I’ve been really excited to. Talk about this topic today. I do love the personal growth side of things. In.

In business, because business is truly. Related to. Your personal growth in so many ways and businesses often stop growing when the personal growth. Stops. So guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. I really appreciate every single one of the listeners. That tune into this on a weekly basis. Guys, it’s insane. What we’re seeing a hundred percent growth in the number of listeners and also the a hundred percent growth this month alone in the number of listens.

We’ve had to this podcast. So I thank you all for tuning in. I really appreciate and love you all. You’ve got anything you wanted here feel free to drop me a line. Denny@owendenny.com. You can check out the note. You can check out my email address in the show notes, but again, if you found this episode truly valuable.

Or you think that someone who could benefit from this information. Share this podcast like this podcast, subscribe to this podcast, give this podcast a five star review, do whatever you can to promote and share this. Because again, we don’t get paid to do this. We’re never going to stuff an ad in front of your face. With this podcast. We may have a cool jingle at the start soon.

I’m writing one. That’s going to be the focus of another podcast very shortly, but. I just want to say. Don’t give up.

Focus on your dreams.

Take action every day. And remember. Don’t ever let the word maybe. Enter your vocabulary guys. It’s been an absolute hoot. Thank you so much for tuning in today. God bless, stay safe. And if you do need help with your direct response advertising efforts, your Facebook marketing efforts, or anything to do with your SaaS company.

Wanting to achieve T2D3 growth this year, you know what to do. Jump on our website owendenny.com. Schedule a 10 minute friendly chat and we’ll speak there. I’ll talk to y’all soon. Cheers for now. Bye.



Connect with Dean Denny, host of Open Source Growth and Director at Owendenny Digital


Owendenny Digital, Australia’s #1 SaaS Marketing Agency



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